arise

Hi, guys

I am starting a long-awaited head rebuild and belts change on y '89 944 S2, but since the car has suffered several cripple-handed owners, some things don’t come together in my head. Please observe the two pics below. Maybe you can provide me with some answers.

Any 3.0L engine close-ups will be gratefully taken, regardless of issues depicted below.

Thanks in advance, Yuri

RedlineMan

Hey Juri;

- The ground bolts to the INSIDE of the firewall near the battery.

- That is the proper routing and connection for the fuel lines.

- That must be a euro car with no AC or PS?

- The fan wiring should come up from underneath, not the top.

I'll snap you a pic of my S2 tomorrow if you like?

Dal Heger

I have never seen that pulley on any 944! It has timing marks? You can't set timing on these cars! It's controlled by the DME. I've also never seen the other pulleys on the main crank pulley. Doesn't look like a Porsche part.

The fans are installed upside down, the wires feed from the bottom and are attached to two points on the bottom of the fan shroud by clips. They are also typically zip tied to the fan support going up to the connector.

The fuel lines look correct.

The negative (ground) attachment point is inside the firewall.

Dal.

Legoland951

The fans and fan shroud are installed upside down, thus the upside down fan wiring. The third pulley is something I have never seen either. I would imagine the tape is to keep the fan from hitting the wires. The right way to do it is to wiretie it to the fan shroud "arm" attaching the fan motor mounting point to the fan shroud itself. The lower radiator hose is rubbing against the fan thus the blue tape. If you can't reposition the lower radiator hose to the water pump away from the fan, buy a new hose, which should come with enough straight hose section from the radiator to clear the fans. Sometimes, people cut the end of the hose where it clamps onto the lower radiator and shorten the clearance between the fan and the hose.

Scootin159

Also there should be a plastic cover covering the timing/balance shaft belts.

joseph mitro

arise, wow. based on those photos, looks like you have some work ahead of you. there must be other problems too.

i rebuilt my entire M44/40 engine and the pics are in the link in my signature. may help you out a bit. you can buy an upper gasket set which should have the parts you need for the head rebuild.

arise

Guys,

thank you for your prompt responses.

The car is European model with PS but no AC. Generally ROW cars have everything that American cars have

Soon I will put fans in normal position, and maybe buy a new longer hose to protect it from PS pulley.
What I called the 'timing mark' on my weird crank pulley appears to be a reference mark for TDC setting, sorry for a misnomer.

Everyone tells me that fuel line routing is OK, but I am concermed of the return line connection - is it the right one? On most engine pics I've got it is concealed with fuel distributor cover. My lines are crossing - may be the return line was cut short?

Besides, I have checked the timing belt rollers, some of them live their own life! Should I change ALL rollers with my timing belts?

hosrom_951

Do youreself a favour, don't start the car AT ALL. The timing beltlooks like it is barely holding on, you don't need it to snap.

Yes, replace the rollers, tensioners as well as the front seals (possibly the water pump) when changing the belts, things are looking very old there, and someone was definately messing about.

PS: The power steering is leaking or you have an oil leak from the balance shaft front seal

joseph mitro

the upper roller you are pointing to is simply a guide roller. no adjustment there.

the lower roller is an eccentric adjusting roller to keep tension on the balance shaft belt. tension is created by rotating the roller to make contact with the belt, then tightening the nut. i agree - replace it all. it would cost $300-400 US in parts, but it's worth it.

Dal Heger

Those two rollers are just idler rollers, they can move freely. The bottom one SHOULD roll freely, according to the specs, it should not actually touch the balance shaft belt,, something like 0.5mm clearance. It's just there to keep the belt from slapping. It will turn normally, but it should not actually have any belt tension on it. The other roller is just to keep the timing belt from slapping around, typically it does touch the timing belt, but it doesn't do anything except keep the timing belt from vibrating during that long run. There should also be another idler pulley below that on the S2s, right above the crank pulley (that you can't remove before taking the crank pulley off).

I agree with Hosrom, that timing belt has seen better days. I'd replace it NOW. Also pop the timng belt cover, look at the timng chain tensioner in the head. If there are any deep grooves in the plastic tensioning pads, replace the pads (or replace the tensioner if it hasn't been done in the last 100k miles) immediately. If that pad cracks then you're looking for a new head to replace. Those are expensive!

Dal.

hosrom_951

Why do i have a feeling that the "extra" pully on the crank is for the power steering pump? (ie, you have two p/s pump pullies).

joseph mitro

yea, the lower balance shaft tensioner is responsible for the tension on the balance shaft belt, i didn't mean to imply the roller in question actually created the tension. sorry for any confusion there.....

Fishey

Replace those fuel lines ASAP! Just look how the further is attached.. That is not correct at all..

Here is how they should be (note I have aftermarket fuellines but you can still see the small connector before the connection to the dampener)

Legoland951

The lower idler roller (the left roller in the picture - one that keeps the balance shaft belt from slapping) SHOULD NOT touch the balance belt. Most people do this wrong and is why lots of people complain about whining noises after their belt change and why their belts break prematurely (due to seizure of this roller) sending pieces of balance shaft belt into the timing belt possibly bending valves. The balance shaft belt has less tension than the timing belt also. It helps if you have someone next to you who has done this before a few times successfully.

Dal Heger

I wouldn't worry about that. The difference here is that the fuel line that is installed doesn't have the correct connection to that particular FPR. Most likely someone took a FPR from an 8 valve car and installed it on the S2 (which is incorrect, the S2 and 968 have 4 bar FPRs versus the 2.5bar (stock) 8 valve and turbo FPRs). The line from the FPR is only used to circulate extra fuel back to the fuel tank. It's not under any pressure, a simple hose clamp will work. If that IS a 4 bar FPR then it's just not the correct fitting, the ones that Porsche used for these cars have threads on the ends to accept a nut attachment, but there are aftermarket ones that can just use a nipple and a hose clamp. Not a big deal. I'd attach a fuel pressure gauge to the fuel rail and see what the static fuel pressure is (car not running, DME relay spades bridged to run the fuel pump). You should get right around 4 bar pressure. If not, you have an incorrect Fuel Pressure Regulator (FPR) and most likely the car runs like poorly (lean too little fuel - no power).

It looks like someone replaced the FPR with an incorrect one and had to cut off the correct hose connection to make the hose fit the new (incorrect) FPR. I'd put a pressure gauge on it and see what it says. If the pressure is 4 bar, then I wouldn't worry about it.

Dal.