356 SC Aftermarket Fuel Injection

wasserkuhl · 09-04-2009, 09:36 AM

Greetings from the Antipodes(Australia).

I am considering updating my Solex P II 40's to an aftermarket fuel injection system.

I have read about the CB performance system and it looks like a very easy and value for money kit.

Has anyone done this? If so, what were the outcomes?

Has anyone used the CB Kit?

The key areas for improvement are improved starting, better power delivery and perhaps better fuel efficiency.

I know it can be viewed as bastardry, the car is a mint example, however I prefer to drive it rather than show it so the modern EFI feels like a good, non obtrusive improvement to the car.

cal44 · 09-04-2009, 11:53 AM

I don't know...........just seems like money wasted. Maybe its me. I like my carbs and as for mileage, would it really make that much difference?

As for hard starting, I think all of us 356er's have a bit of trouble when the car sits for a while. I am thinking of installing an electric fuel pump on the '63. That will be the end of that problem........I think. I would like to see a picture of the fuel injection system out of couriousity.

wasserkuhl · 09-04-2009, 12:16 PM

Hi Cal.

System can be found at this link.

http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=280

I have installed an electric pump to prim the system, and it starts OK, just needs to warm up etc as all cars do. I have been debating whether I do this, as the car is driven weekends only, so its not much of a chore. Just that idle speed adjustment, air/vacum leaks etc... always can rear their heads! NLA (AFAIK) do fully rebuilt Solex' for both split and solid shaft carbs and the price difference between these two options is not huge. So for the sake of modern efficiency, its an option at the moment...

Really, its the only clue as to the real age of the car!!! everything else is Beyond its time!

cal44 · 09-04-2009, 08:14 PM

Wasser, do you visit the 356 Registry website? I don't know if anyone has posted this or not. This is what I did. When I bought the poor dear two years ago, besides for needing alot of little things like a full BRAKE rebuild it ran like crap.
Lucky for me it has a Harry Pellow rebuilt engine so I knew that wasn't it. The car had been setting for many years in a garage and came complete with spider webs and lots o' dust. Another stroke of luck was a Zenith expert for the 356 live three miles from me, I took them off and delivered to the mans house. One day later they were back and installed. I took the car to his house where he balanced and adjusted. It runs perfect and the car still looks like crap.
If you can find a Solex expert then it sure would be alot cheaper. I wonder if the fuel injection system runs on 12 or 6 volt. $1700 big ones...........I don't know...........
At the end of the month I will attending the Coronado Vintage Races here in San Diego where they race a bunch of 356's. I think they are required to run carbs. Those cars a darn fast.

wasserkuhl · 09-05-2009, 06:19 AM

Hi Cal, yes I do go to the registry sire, I am a member!

The Injection system requires a constant 12.5V so an upgrade from generator to alternator is required, Mine runs on 12V now as I have converted it, that alone made a huge difference. I just got back from a 100 mile cruise in it and to be honest, it really isn't as much of a pain to go ahead and lay out 1700 notes.
356 Specialists, that I trust are thin on the ground down here, and the ones who declare they are specialists are just plain cowboys using peoples cars as learning tools.

But, I do know a guy who has retired and was a BMW mechanic so he may have had some experience with Solex' carbs. I made som adjustments to it today and it ran quite well, but best to get it set up again a balanced.

and , Cal, a dirty, cobwebbed 356 looks better than any new car you can buy!

cal44 · 09-06-2009, 12:19 PM

Nice car and right hand drive. I know there are other 356er's in A. What do they do? who does their carb work? If you get the carbs done or not it seems to me if you can find anyone that speacializes in multiple carburation they will be able ajust and balance. IMHO
Regards,
Mike

bleucamaro · 09-09-2009, 07:55 PM

Hi Wasser, we are in progress of restoring / hot rodding a 356. It will be EFI. Our reason was for driveability, tuneability, and reliability. Also the cost of rebuilding the Solexes drove us down this path.

I've never heard of CB, and from their website, there's not a lot of information.

As for your electric fuel pump, you will need a high pressure pump for fuel injection, look at Walbro or Bosch. You will also need to plumb a return line to the tank. There are 2 schools of thought on this, one is to run the pressure regulator near the tank with a very short return line, but was advised against without a well baffled tank. The other is to have the pressure regulator at the motor and after the injectors. This supposedly reduces pulsing, and helps if theres ever a starvation problem.

Another thing to consider is how you are going to trigger the system, and how high of a resolution you want. Are you going to put an encoder in the distributor, or use a trigger wheel off the crank? Are you prepared to make the parts to support that?

The system we are using also includes the ignition, which makes tuning even easier.

wasserkuhl · 09-10-2009, 11:18 AM

Thanks Bleu.
Well the ignition has been converted, but I suspect using a crank trigger would be the best way to go.

It has always interested me and I think I will continue to research the best 'kit' that has all the correct components. The return line/regulator issue is a siuation , I feel that will require testing to see what gives the best results. For me the car is a cruiser and, once warmed it behaves itself. But the whole Carby thing annoys me when there is a modern solution. I guess I could get components for almost the same cost as 'nla' Solexes( I almost threw up when I saw their cost!! ) So its going to be a long term project for me!!!

daveo90s4 · 10-16-2009, 04:32 AM

Wasserkuhl,

You could give Rob in Victoria a ring, his mobile (Australia) is 0417 302 893.

I'd be surprised if he couldn't either get your carbs running right / point you in the right direction and / or give some suggestions about fuel injection.

Dave

wzlc · 10-19-2009, 05:26 AM

Thank you for sharing.

09-04-2009, 09:36 AM	#1
wasserkuhl User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Barossa Valley South Australia Posts: 26	356 SC Aftermarket Fuel Injection Greetings from the Antipodes(Australia). I am considering updating my Solex P II 40's to an aftermarket fuel injection system. I have read about the CB performance system and it looks like a very easy and value for money kit. Has anyone done this? If so, what were the outcomes? Has anyone used the CB Kit? The key areas for improvement are improved starting, better power delivery and perhaps better fuel efficiency. I know it can be viewed as bastardry, the car is a mint example, however I prefer to drive it rather than show it so the modern EFI feels like a good, non obtrusive improvement to the car. Last edited by wasserkuhl; 09-04-2009 at 09:37 AM. Reason: typo's

09-04-2009, 11:53 AM	#2
cal44 Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: San Diego Posts: 670	I don't know...........just seems like money wasted. Maybe its me. I like my carbs and as for mileage, would it really make that much difference? As for hard starting, I think all of us 356er's have a bit of trouble when the car sits for a while. I am thinking of installing an electric fuel pump on the '63. That will be the end of that problem........I think. I would like to see a picture of the fuel injection system out of couriousity. __________________ Sports.... Opiate of Fools

09-04-2009, 08:14 PM	#4
cal44 Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: San Diego Posts: 670	Wasser, do you visit the 356 Registry website? I don't know if anyone has posted this or not. This is what I did. When I bought the poor dear two years ago, besides for needing alot of little things like a full BRAKE rebuild it ran like crap. Lucky for me it has a Harry Pellow rebuilt engine so I knew that wasn't it. The car had been setting for many years in a garage and came complete with spider webs and lots o' dust. Another stroke of luck was a Zenith expert for the 356 live three miles from me, I took them off and delivered to the mans house. One day later they were back and installed. I took the car to his house where he balanced and adjusted. It runs perfect and the car still looks like crap. If you can find a Solex expert then it sure would be alot cheaper. I wonder if the fuel injection system runs on 12 or 6 volt. $1700 big ones...........I don't know........... At the end of the month I will attending the Coronado Vintage Races here in San Diego where they race a bunch of 356's. I think they are required to run carbs. Those cars a darn fast. __________________ Sports.... Opiate of Fools

09-06-2009, 12:19 PM	#6
cal44 Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: San Diego Posts: 670	Nice car and right hand drive. I know there are other 356er's in A. What do they do? who does their carb work? If you get the carbs done or not it seems to me if you can find anyone that speacializes in multiple carburation they will be able ajust and balance. IMHO Regards, Mike __________________ Sports.... Opiate of Fools Last edited by cal44; 09-06-2009 at 01:05 PM.

09-09-2009, 07:55 PM	#7
bleucamaro Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Elk Gove, CA Posts: 2,846	Hi Wasser, we are in progress of restoring / hot rodding a 356. It will be EFI. Our reason was for driveability, tuneability, and reliability. Also the cost of rebuilding the Solexes drove us down this path. I've never heard of CB, and from their website, there's not a lot of information. As for your electric fuel pump, you will need a high pressure pump for fuel injection, look at Walbro or Bosch. You will also need to plumb a return line to the tank. There are 2 schools of thought on this, one is to run the pressure regulator near the tank with a very short return line, but was advised against without a well baffled tank. The other is to have the pressure regulator at the motor and after the injectors. This supposedly reduces pulsing, and helps if theres ever a starvation problem. Another thing to consider is how you are going to trigger the system, and how high of a resolution you want. Are you going to put an encoder in the distributor, or use a trigger wheel off the crank? Are you prepared to make the parts to support that? The system we are using also includes the ignition, which makes tuning even easier. __________________ sold:1989 944S2, Baltic Blue / Linen 2005 STi, WRB 1960 356 S90 Project Car WTB: clean 911 SC, 3.2 Carrera Coupe, pre '75 911, C6 Corvette, 2010 Camaro or house. The Better Place

09-04-2009, 12:16 PM	#3
wasserkuhl User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Barossa Valley South Australia Posts: 26	Hi Cal. System can be found at this link. http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=280 I have installed an electric pump to prim the system, and it starts OK, just needs to warm up etc as all cars do. I have been debating whether I do this, as the car is driven weekends only, so its not much of a chore. Just that idle speed adjustment, air/vacum leaks etc... always can rear their heads! NLA (AFAIK) do fully rebuilt Solex' for both split and solid shaft carbs and the price difference between these two options is not huge. So for the sake of modern efficiency, its an option at the moment... Really, its the only clue as to the real age of the car!!! everything else is Beyond its time!

09-05-2009, 06:19 AM	#5
wasserkuhl User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Barossa Valley South Australia Posts: 26	Hi Cal, yes I do go to the registry sire, I am a member! The Injection system requires a constant 12.5V so an upgrade from generator to alternator is required, Mine runs on 12V now as I have converted it, that alone made a huge difference. I just got back from a 100 mile cruise in it and to be honest, it really isn't as much of a pain to go ahead and lay out 1700 notes. 356 Specialists, that I trust are thin on the ground down here, and the ones who declare they are specialists are just plain cowboys using peoples cars as learning tools. But, I do know a guy who has retired and was a BMW mechanic so he may have had some experience with Solex' carbs. I made som adjustments to it today and it ran quite well, but best to get it set up again a balanced. and , Cal, a dirty, cobwebbed 356 looks better than any new car you can buy!

09-10-2009, 11:18 AM	#8
wasserkuhl User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Barossa Valley South Australia Posts: 26	Thanks Bleu. Well the ignition has been converted, but I suspect using a crank trigger would be the best way to go. It has always interested me and I think I will continue to research the best 'kit' that has all the correct components. The return line/regulator issue is a siuation , I feel that will require testing to see what gives the best results. For me the car is a cruiser and, once warmed it behaves itself. But the whole Carby thing annoys me when there is a modern solution. I guess I could get components for almost the same cost as 'nla' Solexes( I almost threw up when I saw their cost!! ) So its going to be a long term project for me!!!

10-16-2009, 04:32 AM	#9
daveo90s4 Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 234	Wasserkuhl, You could give Rob in Victoria a ring, his mobile (Australia) is 0417 302 893. I'd be surprised if he couldn't either get your carbs running right / point you in the right direction and / or give some suggestions about fuel injection. Dave __________________ DaveO 1990 S4 Australia

10-19-2009, 05:26 AM	#10
wzlc User Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 13	Thank you for sharing.