Throttle Lift

Ha! I guess I’m not that motivated. I’d rather go golfing than drive long distance for a test drive. But point taken.

718socal

I owned a M2C MT for two years. If you need the backseat, get the the M2C. It is a great DD with a lot of torque. I sometimes miss the low end torque. The S55 engine is solid if you don't tune. I had mine tuned to Stage 2 E85 600 hp. Impossible to put the power down in the rear. I didn't like the seating position, clutch and MT. I installed a UCP pedal and Auto Solutions SSK with CDV delete. For me, the ride was too firm and unsettled more so than my CGTS when hard braking. I installed some HAS and it improved the ride significantly. With the DSC controller on my CGTS the ride is more compliant and comfortable. The M2C seats are fine for a couple hours but I cant give you a comparison with the LWBS. Easy to get in and out. It has good value for the price you pay. Wait until the new G87 M2 is released next week and see if the price of the M2C goes up or down.

HelpMeHelpU

I own an M2C and sold a 981 CS when I bought it but I also am fortunate to have a GT4, too.

I loved my 981 CS. It's a spectacular car. I owned it for more than six years and drove it more than 35k miles.

I love the GT4, as well.

But if I had to pick one car for your purposes it would be the M2C. It's got all the power and handling one can use AND it's more livable, especially the ingress/egress. I also believe it looks gorgeous, too. (The Porsches are gorgeous, too.)

Denny Swift

Are you a PCA member? There should be local members who would be more than happy to let you see their cars. When I wanted to experience a Spyder, I asked my dealer if he would reach out to his customers with Spyder’s and ask them if they’d let me see their cars. A great guy with a Spyder invited me to his house and offered to let me drive it. I’d do the same if I got a similar request as long as the dealer could vouch for the guy.

Toprarnen

Hello! Given your thoughts, I would love to hear your experience regarding steering feel. I tried a 2018 M2 (non-comp) and found the steering to be almost boring because it was so detached. Do you ever feel the same moving between the GT4 and your M2 Comp? Did you feel that way moving from the Cayman? I ask because I haven't lived with either, and will hopefully be driving a Porsche for the first time tomorrow (2018 Cayman, manual). I'm wondering if a manual M2 would solve my problem of engagement, or rather lack thereof.

Thanks!

manifold danger

If you watch/read too many reviews you'll fall into the trap of everything having "dead steering". The truth is, it makes nowhere near as much difference as you'd think, and if you don't stop to think about it, you don't really notice it.

Sure, you can talk yourself up with "omg I love how great the steering is" while you're driving a car with great steering, and it does make a difference- but in truth the only car I really did have an issue with the steering was the Audi RS5. And it wasn't that bad- it is just a tangible difference in the driving dynamics that is just not as good as most other sports sedans/sports cars out there.

Personally I almost completely forget about "steering feel" when the overall experience is good, whether on track or on a back road. Other than the aforementioned Audi, several BMWs I've driven have delivered this experience, including the OG M2, which from what I understand is not as good as the M2C.

It's kind of a trope these days, and frankly I'm tired of hearing it come out of reviewers' mouths. It was refreshing to watch this video on a 987.1 Cayman S from Savagegeese that just came out yesterday- in it, they discuss how often journalists and reviewers talk about "analog steering feel" and the glory days of hydraulic steering... but then when you go back and experience it, it underwhelms. This is what I think is happening when people clamor on about "steering feel"- nostalgia is a hell of a drug, and the 987/997 generation of cars are often used as the benchmark in this discussion. Felt good to see them brought down a peg or two by some of the most respected YouTubers out there- although I'm sure TONS of folks will be up in arms over their comments.

Good vid for reference, definitely worth a watch-

Toprarnen

Thanks for the comprehensive reply! I guess I may have been expecting too much, but I just thought it would be "more" coming from an IS350, which honestly felt pretty numb as well. I guess I'll get that steering excitement from Karting, and settle for an engaging but imperfect ride from the car side of things.

Regarding the video, I did watch some of it, and I do appreciate the "you'll get used it and enjoy the overall experience" when you find a nice road.

Thanks again for the share.

Denny Swift

Interesting, because to me (based on different and perhaps not as relevant experience), it makes all the difference in the world. I've never owned an M car, but I've had 3 BMWs. Each had the Sport Package, the Dynamic Handling package, and were the most aggressive non-M versions then available. My first BMW was a Z4. The steering was absolutely horrible. I just couldn't connect with that car. It was mediocre in every way and did nothing great. The steering was just dead in that you would turn the wheel, and then wait for something to happen. There was no feedback. The shifter and clutch takeup were also sloppy in classic BMW fashion. Then I had a 335 coupe (E92) , again with a 6 speed and all the handling options. It was marginally better, but still had a overall disconnected feel. Next was a 435 coupe (F32) - 6 speed. It was perhaps marginally better, but overall, it was sterile and disconnected. Another thing about BMWs (at least the 3 I owned) is that the seat is offset from the center of the steering wheel by about 1.5 - 2" (yes, I measured it). It drove me crazy and it was something I could just never get used to. My wife never noticed it and I asked other BMW owners, and nearly all never noticed it. But my experience (albeit limited) is that the way BMWs handle and interface with the driver is literally a world away from the way Porsche does it. And all the BMWs had clutch delay valves. I removed them, but the clutch feel was still vague, and there was terrible throttle hang that made H-T downshifting cumbersome at best. After 19 years of trying my best to learn to at least make peace with BMW if not love them, I gave up. I never once had an experience in my BMWs that made me say, "this is a great car." Whereas in my 981S, my Spyder, and my GTS, I say that every time I drive them even if it's to the grocery store. To me, they are like different organisms that split on the evolutionary tree 30 million years ago.

manifold danger

I'm not saying my impression is universal. Let me get that out of the way. In fact, I'm pretty sure this could qualify as a "hot take", because it pretty much goes against the grain of what most others would probably say on the topic.

Also, I probably should clarify a few points. I'm not trying to imply that an M2 Competition will drive as well as a GT4. Hell to the no it won't, but it shouldn't be expected to. It costs about 1/3 of what a 718 GT4 will fetch on today's open market...

My point is that when comparing sports cars, steering feel always seems to get brought up, and I think in most cases, it's vastly overblown. First of all, I've heard several people on this very board try to claim that the GTS has "dead" steering when compared to the GT4. It's ridiculous how much that phrase gets used to describe sports car steering.... so let's just say it's subjective. Someone will try to argue that it's not subjective and that's fine; to me, it's semantics. It's the same to me as exhaust. A 2.5T and a 4.0 both make noise; they're just different. Some (many) may prefer one over the other; that's fine- it's still noise.

You turn the wheel and the front wheels move. How it "feels" is a subjective entity that will vary from one person to the next...

So to try to put a bow on this-

Let me stop you right there. I'm specifically talking about steering feel as it pertains to sports cars. Any other BMW will drive no better than a Lexus (unless it was from like the 80s, but please refer back to what I said about nostalgia...). Seriously, non-M BMWs are FAR WORSE than the Audi RS5 I threw under the bus earlier. The steering is in fact dreadful. Anecdotally, I brought my F82 M4 in for its first service and they gave me some F80 ****box as a loaner. I couldn't stand it, it literally almost made me want to puke just driving out of the parking lot, I couldn't believe how bad it was...

Anyway, I am a bit surprised you hated the E92 335i because that car was ok, but it still wasn't a sports car. I've had an E36 M3, an E92 335i, and an F82 M4, and all were acceptable but to BMW's credit there is indeed a CLEAR DIFFERENCE with the M cars- especially F series onwards with the electric racks.

My whole point is that if a car is truly labeled a "sports car" (and let's not pick nits about whether M cars are "true sports cars", let's assume for the sake of this conversation they are because they're what we're talking about), then the whole "steering feel" thing will be blown out of proportion. There is no such thing, to me, as "dead steering" in a sports car. At least I haven't experienced it- not even with the RS5 it's just the "worst" I've experienced because it's light and twitchy, but still precise and dare I say "fun".

"Steering feel" has a lot more to it than just how the wheel feels in your hands... so yes, a GT4 or any mid-engine Porsche really will "feel" better to drive than a (stock) M2 Competition- or even a CS in my humble opinion. But you can't tell me that an M2's steering is "dead". To me, that's hyperbole, and as much nonsense as saying the 2.5T in the 718 S sounds "horrible".

The M2 is fun to drive, don't let an echo chamber convince you otherwise.

edit- If you want an example of why I get triggered by the words "steering feel", just watch some of JayEmm's videos. He's probably the worst offender I've seen; apparently if it's not a Lotus or pre-electric Porsche, the steering is crap and you shouldn't drive it. He said these words about the GTS 4.0 and got eviscerated in his own comments but to each their own...

Xxyion

@manifold danger I largely agree with all your points. I feel like steering feel tends to show up more when you're driving multiple cars back to back as many reviewers do. For many of us with only 1-2 cars (obv some have more) it stops being something we notice. Sure maybe my GT4 has much better steering feel than my Veloster N (its actually the opposite lol) but it's not something i think about each time i get into my cars.

That being said the M2 C that i had had easily the "worst" steering feel out of all the cars ive owned followed closely by my A91 Supra (hmmmm). But to your point, when i had the M2C, i didn't really think about it. I turned the wheels, the front wheels turned. While the steering wheel wasn't as communicative as the S2000 i had at the time, i also attributed that to just older cars felt more raw.

I do think it's an overblown "stat" that a lot of people like to bring up. I can understand on center dead zone, but that's different than steering feel imo.

Denny Swift

I think that certain things that drive one person crazy, aren’t even noticeable to the next person. The steering in all the BMWs I’ve owned continuously annoyed me. After 19 years it still annoyed me every time I drove them. It was the same with the shifter feel and the offset steering wheel. Go out with a measuring tape and measure the distance from the right side of your seat to the center of your steering wheel. Now measure the distance from the left bolster. You’ll find a difference (if yours is like my 3). You probably never noticed it before, but I hated it and never got used to it. Everyone has a different tolerance level for certain things. Perhaps we should just say that the BMW way of doing things is quite different from the Porsche way. If you like them both, fine. But I strongly prefer the Porsche way and strongly dislike the BMW way.

GilMGTS

I had a '19 M2C prior to jumping into a 718 CS and now in a 718 CGTS (turbo).

The M2C is definitely good, but it's not 718 good. First and foremost the handling is no comparison. The BMW fights you in the corners and the twisties in comparison. The weight in the front (although they advertise 50/50 weight distro) is apparent. The balance in the 718 is unmatched, I've recently had some seat time in 991.2 GTS4's and still incomparable to the 718's balance.

The M2C is more powerful though and the engine is silk, but has a hard time putting that power down efficiently. The 718's t4 powerplant is lumpy in comparison but coming from several boxer 4 turbos it is the best out there, the VTG turbo is brilliant and does not give up. The engine and turbo is modeled after the 911 turbo's.

The 718 gearbox is in a different league, precise and confident, the clutch is perfectly weighted and gearing superb.

The M2c's gearbox is rubbery and had me second guessing my shifts before letting off the clutch.

Food for thought: if the 718 was powered equally to 911's they would cannibalize sales.

The BMW's tech is a bit more current but the Porsche's cockpit is more intuitive with everything in perfect reach and sport seats+ are spot on. The BMW's seats are lackluster, made me feel as if I was strapped into a baby seat.

Storage in the 718 is nice, frunk+trunk.

In conclusion, the M2C is a good sport luxury car and I did enjoy it, especially the styling. At the end it's just an overpowered go cart with a hooligan following. The Porsche is a sports car with supercar handling. It does everything gracefully and excites you everytime you step in. It is special, the BMW is not.

LehmanZ06

RS3 is your huckleberry for a daily driver.

Throttle Lift

Great information, thanks. Just one last comparison...can you compare the road noise in the M2C vs the 718CS. Is either one quieter or are they about the same? Thanks.

GilMGTS

From what i recall they are similar. You do share the cabin with the Engine unlike the BMW so you may feel it slightly more, but not to the point of intrusion.