fueledbymetal

I have a 2021 6 speed Cayman GTS 4.0 that I ordered new and thoroughly enjoy on fun weekend drives and reserve it exclusively for those occasions. I did a PEC track event last year with a PDK 718 Cayman S and had a blast, so I’m seriously considering ordering another 718 w/PDK for track events - the PDK really made the experience click for me.

I live 2 hours from the nearest venue, so it must be comfortable commuting to & from, have a PDK and the 18-way seats for the adjustable lumbar support. What would you suggest as a minimum build with those requirements? I'm 50, so this is purely for my own enjoyment & improvement, not to be competitive, so I'm open to base or S models. I specifically want to order new so that I can also do euro delivery since Covid stopped me from doing that with my current Cayman. I’ll keep my current GTS 4.0 for weekend drives of course.

Zhao

From a track perspective I would just use the 6 speed. Whatever you think you're getting out of the PDK over the 6 speed will be quickly compensated for by driver skill; either others skill who have infinitely more experience than you, or your own as time goes on.

PDK prevents a money shift, but honestly, in almost 20 years of track driving money shifts are pretty rare. I don't think it makes financial sense either as the maintenance and guaranteed depreciation you'll lose just on having 2 718s sitting in your garage instead of one will probably go a long way to paying for an engine, and someday will probably far exceed the engine cost.

worf928

That’s all true.

But, you can’t ED a Porsche you’ve already taken delivery of.

Every Porsche enthusiast should attempt to do ED; it’s a bucket list item.

@fueledbymetal For the track you want all of the optional performance goodies that are standard on the GTS:
- PASM or SPASM .. and SPASM is the way to go given intended use.
- PTV
- Sport Chrono - not because of Launch Control but because of PSM Sport Mode which you will want to use on the track once you’ve chucked your Green Group shoes.

As for Base or S … <shrug> Skill development on the track is NOT about power. Quite the opposite in fact. Better skills development occurs trying to drive a slow car fast. High power cars are often used by novices to go fast on straights instead of developing the skills to go ‘round corners fast.

ED? Do it. Go big. You won’t regret it and you’ll always remember it.

Here’s my ED thread for ideas: http://rennlist.com/forums/991-turbo...ed-thread.html

HobbitHouse

Sell the GTS, buy a new one, take ED of that.

Then buy a used S or Base or T, the depreciation on them is so much higher you could probably get near sticker for the GTS 4.0 and get a huge discount on a Base or S or T.

As for the options, as previously said SPASM, PTV and Sport Chrono. After that just get a good track alignment and some 18-19" tires with something better than PS4S or P1 tires on it.

mtregan

I have a 2017 718 base with sport chrono and PDK. Just graduated up to the DE blue group, so driving solo now. I find I'm competitive with some of the S drivers in my group. I think it's more about driving skill than the extra HP. I like having the PDK. Might be because I'm new to DE but I find there is so much you're thinking about during the DE session, not having to shift is one less thing to worry about. Was with one instructor this past summer. He remarked how well the PDK worked. Said each time he felt we should be downshifting, the PDK would do it right before he thought we should be. He was very impressed with it. I used my father's Carrera 4s my first year. It's a manual so have some limited experience with a stick on the track.

My father started DE 2 years ago with me. He drives th 2015 Carrera 4s, manual. This year he took my Cayman to the track one weekend. Enjoyed the PDK. Like myself, one less thing to have to think about while driving. I'm sure, for him, after a couple more years with the manual, it will become second nature on the track, (he's still trying to learn how to heal/toe)

ldamelio

I'm in with everyone else on this. It doesn't make sense to have two of the same car, one for the track and one for the street UNLESS one of them is heavily track oriented or a full on race car that you tow. This means rollbar, seats, harnesses for safety as well as at least some minimal suspension work (camber plates if not coilovers, LCAs, toe links, etc.) as well as wheels/tires, wheel and brake studs, etc. You can't get any of this from the factory, but SPASM and PTV are a good start.

You can't have it all in a car that you are going to drive to the track. I understand your dilemma - I've owned my 718S PDK for 6 years. Like you, I'm not trying to be a pro - I'm a 63 year old guy who is trying to get better at a new sport I've fallen in love with. For three years I enjoyed it as a good weather/weekend car. Then I got the track bug. I was reluctant to alter such a beautiful car, but as one gets better on the track, it becomes necessary to go down the rabbit hole to minimize running costs and maximize safety.

On stock suspension, you'll eat street tires like they were Cheerios - new fronts every couple of events, new rears every three or four. So add camber plates and toe links and control arms. For both safety and performance, you'll want at least 200 TW tires on the track after your first 5 - 6 events. So add second set of wheels/tires. You'll be changing brake pads frequently, so add wheel and caliper studs. You'll get thrown around the car in stock belts and seats, so add harnesses and seats for safety. This requires a roll bar (or a harness bar if you're willing to risk squashing your head). This is about what you will need even if you only want to become an intermediate hobbyist track driver. Anything else, you're compromising on safety. If anything, I've done these upgrades more slowly than I should have. Hanging on for dear life in three points and stock seats in the corners was not safe and beat me up last season. (PCA white 3rd year driver).

I've gone down this road with my car (plus the cooling mods needed on a 2018 S) and yes, it will be a little less comfortable for just driving around, but it's as safe and enjoyable for the track as a street car should be. Probably no more long ice cream runs with my wife, but otherwise I can enjoy the car on both track and street. I never used it for long trips.

So, respectfully, your plan is inherently compromised and I would rethink it. I suggest you get a better feel for the sport before you commit to a second car of any kind. A PEC day is a great experience but it's not HPDE. PEC is a demo day, HPDE is a sport and an intense one at that. Think about treating your desire for ED and your desire for a track car as two separate things. Take your GTS (bone stock is fine for a few events) for an HPDE or two and see what it's all about before you spend $100k on a suboptimal plan. Also think about a Porsche oriented trip to Germany - maybe with a few laps of the Nurburgring in a rental - as a replacement for the ED that you missed. Then either track your GTS and follow the usual upgrade path (it becomes obvious as you go) or find an already track-prepped PDK car.

magnus89

Well said, you nailed it.

Zhao

If you got the track itch as a newbie I recommend a few cars.

3rd Gen Miata or 987 cayman (or boxster even) would be my top recommended driver training cars. The miata is practically free to run. The cayman gives good power but not too mcuh and is cheap on consumables. Add coilovers, -3 degrees of camber upfront, -2.5 in the rear. neutral toe. track pads, track brake fluid, 200tw tires, dont muck wiht anything else suspensionwise thinking you're going to make the car handle better. And then just practice. The depreciation on both will also be almost non existent, or may even increase in value.

I also wouldn't run autocross if you want to learn. It's a terrible sport to learn how to drive in because of the non-existent seat time. Do HPDEs, take as much instruction as you can for free, or seek out paid instruction. You dont need instruction but it helps speed up learning a lot. I never had an instructor myself, it wasn't really a thing when I started out, and I was one of the top drivers in my region at my peak (I didn't lose a race my rookie season in the largest class and it only got worse for my competition from then on), but it would have been infinitely easier with some pointers early on. Once you have a decent skill set then go do autocross if you like autocross.



Also, you'll be more comfortable pushing in a cheaper car. A cup car driver recently told me that his 718 spyder was worth too much to risk driving hard on the track. No one who races a cup car cares much about lighting 200k on fire, but even for that guy, the risk wasn't worth the reward of tracking a spyder hard with other fellow instructors. Getting a cheaper slower dedicated track car than what you originally thought was good for the track is a natural progression of a lot of people who end up tracking a lot.

ldamelio

What Zhao said. I don't want to be negative on autocross, but it's a lot of standing around to drive a few one minute laps in a parking lot IMO. Plus, paradoxically, you're more likely to ding the car up hitting cones in autocross than you are to damage the car on the track. Not my cup of tea. Excellent points about the Miata and 987.

nineball

i'll go against the grain - pass on PTV. it's eats rear brake pads like a fat kid with cake. faster really. i averaged 3-4 days per set of rear pads on my 718S with PTV. I spec'd that car with every performance option available in 2017 (except for PCCB and including 18-way as buckets were not an option) and if i could do it over it would be the same with the exception of PTV.

i now track a dedicated 987.2 (cage, harness, suspension, brakes, etc) and love it. i am also a proponent of the PDK - it shifts faster and better than any human ever could and is a godsend to people like me with shoulder problems.

LehmanZ06

I don’t autox anymore, not I autocross with pistols USPSA. I was ok with cars but I suck with guns, comparatively.

Anyway having and autocrossed multiple different cars nationally for many years my take on this is………get a car that’s comfortable a base or S is fine.
Get no performance options. Not needed. For autox sometimes you’re driving 9/10 or 10/10, and don’t want the car trying to protect you.

Unless you’re stepping up to a GT car, then keep the options off IMO.

worf928

And did your S have Sport Chrono and if so were you running PSM in sport mode?

Joe250

Although I agree that autocross can provide minimal seat time for a given event, autocross will give drivers a more solid foundation for car control, driving fundamentals, and car setup. It provides a relatively safe environment for exploring 10/10s and beyond. Track days don't. If you show up for your first HPDE without basic to intermediate car control skills already ingrained, you are doing yourself a disservice as well as picking a relatively risky (and expensive) place to learn. You can certainly start from zero and build yourself into a skilled, fast driver just doing HPDE's but you'll get there quicker and safer starting with autocross.

Don't discount the advantages of competition either. Going up against other drivers in autocross, no matter how informal it all is, will put pressure on you to improve and bring out your best. Chasing random drivers in random cars around a track non-competitively won't have the same effect.

The real shortcut, other than starting out young in karting, is to regularly attend both competitive autocross events and periodic autocross schools. You'll get much more seat time in the schools and (hopefully) instruction tailored to your level.

My first HPDE instructor commented that good autocrossers tend to make good track drivers but good track drivers don't normally make good autocrossers. I haven't seen anything to contradict that.

GTSilver944

Keep the GTS and track it. Or sell it and get a 987/ND/BRZ as well get euro delivery on a nice daily. Whatever you want. If you enjoy autox, go for it.. If you prefer HPDE, that's great. No wrong answers here. You don't need anything other than high temp brake fluid and good tires for a track day. Modifications for better alignment (camber plates) will keep tire costs down, but you don't necessarily need to go down the rabbit hole of $$$ track mods unless you find yourself doing it frequently. My manual 718 T (read base 2.0L) got FTD at my last PCA autocross (albeit a fairly mellow low turnout event), so your 4.0L is more than enough.

nineball

yes. as posted it had every performance option available except for PCCB, and while on track it was in sport+.

HDPE events are not about you competing vs everyone else on track. it's quite easy to track your progress really.