evanecent03

over the past couple weeks I've driven: 991.2 Carrera, 991.1 C2S, 718 Boxster S, 981 Cayman GTS. Numerous trips including in town, great on/off ramps, and highway across terrible pavement.

Today I drove the 991.1 C2S, Cayman GTS and 718S Boxster back-to-back-to-back. the 718S has the punch of the 911 with minimal turbo lag (felt much faster than Cayman GTS), felt fantastic through the turns (same if not better) and the steering feel and ratio felt better to me. add in the newer tech, accept the very decent (albeit less amazing) exhaust note and the 718S is what I chose. It's so quick, direct, and the grip is fantastic. I'm very happy with my choice! NA is great for sound, but the usefulness of power in daily scenarios is much better. I'll probably stick with the car until the new Cayman GTS/GT4 comes out and get one of those bad boys, I bet it'll be incredible.

Selo

Evenecemt03:
Is that to say the 911 C2S had turbo lag greater than the Boxster S?

Zeus993

Chris Harris's 718 review? Yawn. I was so dissappointed and I am a Chris Harris fan. So he can't drift it, doesn't like the sound, blah blah blah. Come on Chris. It is a GREAT car with sublime suspension and steering and a ripping powerful engine. It doesn't stray THAT far off the formula for a classic sports car to not get excited about it. If it was the only car I had I would drive the crap out of it! Anyone else?

JAhmed

I dunno, I am a big Chris Harris fan and I thought the review was exactly what I expected from him. He basically said the car was brilliant, but he was disappointed with the sound. It was more or less like all of the others!

caymannyc

He also said there is understeer, which is to be expected given the increased weight. Not sure I would label any car that has understeer on turn-in to have "sublime" steering. Understeer at the apex of a turn, sure if your velocity is high enough, can happen to any car. But turn-in is significant.


That being said, if I was in the market for a new Cayman or Boxster, in 2016-17 I would go a new or barely used 981, ONLY because it takes car manufacturers a year or two to work out any major issues with a new powertrain. Generally a bit risky to buy the first years' model of any new production. But if I was in the market in 2017-18, easily get the 718 for me. The "sound" issue and what have you are only going to get better.

Zeus993

Here's some video of an original 718. I kind of like the engine sound!

Turn it up!

Noah Fect

That's like selling an '04 Pontiac GTO by showing clips from the Mille Miglia...

croctor

I have read all these posts and have decided to post my opinion. I drive a 2011 Impreza, 5spd 2.5L flat 4 as my winter car and absolutely love it . I think the motor sounds great! My previous Subie was a 5 door STI which also sounded and drove great. So IMHO the 718 will likely do well and I would be happy to own one. Different characteristics than my 981 Spyder but sounds like it will be a hoot to drive. We should welcome it into the fold with open arms!

Suicide Jockey

+1

zanwar

981 has turn-in oversteer to a surprising degree. Based on the reviews I have read they've tuned that out, but Harris is the only one to date that's mentioned understeer.

RNGRJAG

Yawn indeed...

I was reacting to the tenor of the post. Especially the bit about "you don't have the 'latest greatest' therefore you must be jealous." There are plenty of people on Rennlist who couldn't care less about a Cayman/Boxster, either generation, because they are "starter" Porsches or are perceived as being "entry" models. Enthusiasts have many reasons to discuss Porsche's switch to turbo-charging and the concomitant effects on the cars. Resorting to infantile "you're jealous" is bunk.

While you may disagree with his opinion, he is paid to opine. His conclusion was that the 718 is a brilliant car. But, he likes the 981 more. This is merely a statement of fact with respect to his opinion. Furthermore, Chris Harris is very well respected among enthusiasts, myself included.

I hope the 718 satisfies every single purchaser. I am not "bashing" anyone who chooses to purchase one, nor am I the least bit jealous. I do find the discussion about the changes to be interesting and not surprising in the least on a Porsche enthusiast forum. That being said, my preference is for normally aspirated motors, so I wouldn't be a buyer of a turbo-charged model, save for the 911 Turbo, you know, the real "Turbo." After owning an E46 M3 and E92 M3, I left ///M when they switched to turbos for the new M3/M4 and departed from the high-revving N/A formula.

While not previously discussed, another effect of the turbo-chargers and the increased torque is that the new models need not be driven with anger to achieve pace. Consequently, the entire driving experience has been characterized as rewarding "lazy" driving and short-shifting. FOR ME, that's precisely why it is antithetical to the mission of a "sports car." If I wanted sterile speed and computer dictated driving I would buy a GTR and be done with it.

clutchplate

I think that's highly dependent on wheel size, tires and setup. Mine with 20" wheels and Pirelli tires has mild understeer. My little Ford Escape has much quicker turn-in.

caymannyc

And just to add, "quick turn-in" and "oversteer" are completely different things. Oversteer is what happens when your tires lose grip because of a combination of turn vector and speed and your back-end starts swinging around (i.e., drifting or spinout).


Cars that typically suffer from oversteer are ones with significant rear-weight distribution and high power-to-weight ratios. That's why you see so many Corvettes "spin out". The Cayman is neither rear-engine nor very powerful so I would be surprised if it has any oversteer tendencies at all. However, for a "race car", it is far better to have significant amount of design oversteer (such as a F1 car) than having even a little bit of understeer.


Understeer on the other hand is the hall-mark of a design flaw. Too heavy and/or poor aero that reduces grip. Think Mustangs and Camaros. Lots of power but terribly heavy and unbalanced.


And yes, you can reduce understeer with better tires and/or aeroparts (lips, diffuser and wing combo if you want).

blacksheepSpyder

There are lots of 911 owners that don't like anything but the 911. That is their loss. I won't trade my 3.8 spyder but that's just me. My last Porsche was a 914-6 with a 3.2 and steel GT flares. I had that car 27 years.




If you don't like it, I really don't care, it just lets me know you don't get it. If you like the 718 I think that's great, The idea that only one kind of Porsche is cool is as stupid as saying that Corvettes, Camaros and Mustangs aren't cool cars. If you can tell my what you like about your 718 I will be happy to stand there and listen without interruption and even ask questions. I get it.
Snobs aren't right and never will be. To me, that would be like saying Blondes are the only good women. just dumb.

cobalt

I found this very interesting.

I posted when I got my 981GTS after test driving the 718S. I thought the 718S was incredibly capable but hands down I would not trade my GTS with sport suspension, steering wheel and exhaust for a 718S. Sorry to me it sounded more like a VW beetle than a Subaru. I also test drove the 718 before the transmission fix but I have no doubt that the transmission is working way to hard to give the car that N/A feel and will be a problem down the line.

I drive a 94 turbo with gobs of turbo lag and no matter how much they tried to say the 718S does not feel like a turbo to me it clearly does. I have to agree with everything Chris Harris said he basically repeated what I said months ago. The 718S is a great car but we are talking big $$ today for what once was an entry level car and is lacking in the involvement area the 981 has. I considered trading my GTS in for a spyder in fact could have had the same color combo but it felt too much like my GTS and for the extra money the engine didn't thrill me as much as I expected and wasn't worth dealing with the manual top but is a great ride.

If you like to drive all out all the time the 718S is a great car but not so great if your just driving around town where IMO the 981 excels and the 981 sport exhaust is almost as intoxicating sounding as my 964 C2 and turbo with modified exhaust but still is missing that air-cooled note that nothing can replace.