Adrift

Is there a good PCCB vs steel comparison thread, that looks at both performance and cost-benefit analysis?

I was assuming I would stick with steel on a spyder, but considering a shark blue / yellow build, and that nudges me down the pccb route. I will track the car (TBD amount) and have spent plenty of time at tracks on (Porsche) steel brakes (to include self service / maintenance). The difference in braking performance is important, of course, but then so is cost to run those brakes; I am looking for insight.

I assume this topic has been discussed ad nauseum, but PCCB in the Search window gets a million hits. If there is a great thread on this to which you can point me, that would be appreciated. A comprehensive look is important; for example, saying PCCB costs some multiplier more than steel to replace without telling me the respective lifespans isn't the whole picture. If someone has figured out a reasonable $$$/track day (for each type of brake), that would be optimal, especially if paired with a braking power multiplier and fade comparison.

TIA

Zhao

There is no benefit to the braking properties getting PCCBs vs steels. They brake exactly the same, and if you go hardcore with the track events you'll want race pads anyway. The PCCB advantage is they are signfiicantly lighter, but also take weight from the best part of the vehicle to take weight from, however most people will probably never notice it nor will it likely translate into noticeable lap times.

Rotor cost: PCCBs are 20g+ to replace. steels are like $1500+ depending where you live. Difference in pad cost is minor.

lifespan. I change my rotors usually with a set of pads for street use. tracking the pads die faster so I will often run the same rotor for 2-5 pads with a pad that is light on rotor, or sometimes swap the rotors with the pads if the pad eats rotors.

PCCB lifespan is probably the life of the car if you street drive it. If you track drive it the lifespan gets reduced significantly as it's wear increases the amount of heat put into it. If you browse the GT3 forum you'll find there are enough gt3 owners that have had to change their PCCB rotors already, so you could get mere years if you do a lot of track driving.

Resale with PCCBs help if they're mint (but you stil don't get your money back, just a portion of it)... but if they're damaged or worn resale is in the toilet.

PCCBs are for back roads, the occasional light track event, or uber rich people.


If you do go PCCBs there are steel rotors you can buy that you can instantly replace them with at about 1600 for a pair.

Archimedes

Yeah that’s totally false. Way to start the thread off with some misinformation.

OP, aside from thread searching, search YouTube and Vimeo. There’s a video out there somewhere where a guy did a braking comparison between iron and PCCB on a Cayman. They don’t brake the same and they don’t resist fading equally.

Larry Cable

Oh no not this again, again, again...

much, if not all of the debate (at least on RL) is opinion not fact, in particular I have yet to see any actual data comparing steel lifetime vs. PCCB.

I've had PCCB on my 997.1, 997.2 and 991.2 GT3's, I had them on my 991.1 GTS and I have them on my Spyder.

The significant reduction in unsprung weight and their thermal characteristics make them a no brainer for me, but that's just my opinion...

TXshaggy

Looks like you rotate through rides pretty regularly.

Great data point would be how many miles and more importantly how many track miles/events.

Concern is always with track use and replacement; understand street use you’re GTG for near life.

Larry Cable

Well 7.1 was '07, 72 was '10 GTS was '15 and 991.2 was '18 ... Suffer is this year .. ask the 3's had extensive track miles but I'm still to see someone actually log the miles and do the analysis to factually compare lifespan

TXshaggy

Well, haven’t seen rotor cost for the 718, but for the last Gen PCCB is $24,000 and Iron is $2400 on Suncoast…so there is that

Adrift

It's sounding like pccb is just too pricey if you track (more investigation to go here, obviously), but I don't get if the rotors are $24k - $2.4k = $21.6k difference in cost, why does Porsche offer them as an $8k upgrade? (Those costs are for all 4 rotors, yes?) Are they subsidizing PCCB to sell cars, just gouging on replacement parts, or some of both?

GTChamp

If you want to go yellow for the complimentary color combo, you could just go steel rotors and have the calipers professionally painted racing yellow. Price usually $500-1000 iirc

Larry Cable

yes there is that, but there is also the relative wear ratio between iron and ceramics, which again I will say (for the last time) no one to the best of my knowledge has actually documented.

ausgang

Perhaps a less controversial topic is that PCCBs reportedly create significantly less dust --- so that may matter to you -- for example, if you grew up trying to keep your basket weave BBS's clean.
The "coffin spoke" style wheels common to our cars are likely easier to keep clean than most wheels.

Adrift

I asked my dealer about that, and he quoted $1k to $3k (this was the SA ballparking). If knew of a reliable source to provide that, $500 to $1k is quite reasonable, and I would definitely consider that. That sounds kind of low, doesn't it? Labor to pull the wheels, the calipers, paint, reinstall, bleed brakes, reinstall wheels (x4). You would want a good mechanic shop that contracts with a good paint shop that knows what needs to be done to properly paint calipers.

Any recommendations in the Dallas area?

The shark blue would certainly be a much more unique / rare color than guards, and that has some appeal. I love both, visually speaking, so...

zedcat

If you limit search to the 991 GT3 forum you will find several threads that have data including wear measurements using the Porsche tool vs track use. Here is one that is probably one of the most comprehensive. It's still long and you would have to wade through a lot of stuff, but there is some actual data in it.

New PCCB and Track days – Facts Feedback Thread - Page 42 - Rennlist - Porsche Discussion Forums

Adrift

I assume that is a judgement on non-track Porsche drivers

Thanks for the link! 42 pages of pccb chatter!

TRZ06

There is also a difference in feel. The PCCB's have a stronger initial bite and you don't need to go as deep into the pedal to get an equivalent braking force.

My main reasons for choosing them are...

1.) Brake pedal feel (I love brakes that are RIGHT THERE at the top of the pedal stroke). It adds to the driving pleasure of the car and compliments the rest of the car from a performance feel standpoint.

2.) No brake dust

3.) Less weight

4.) They look amazing and add to the overall aggressive look of the car, and that YELLOW just pops.

5.) For my purpose (street driving and canyon runs) don't have to worry about replacing pads/rotors for many years, if ever, depending on how long I keep the car.