wizee

I've never noticed anything like what you're talking about, but I also never encounter the situation you're describing where I'm going WOT from right above idle. I've never launched my car, but when I want to get the car going quickly, I hold 1500-ish RPM till the clutch is fully engaged, then I roll onto the throttle and reach WOT somewhere above 2000 RPM. Releasing the clutch with your foot off the gas and letting the car creep ahead at idle and then flooring the accelerator is a strange way to drive. I never go WOT on any car till I'm above a certain RPM, as engines tend to behave sub-optimally under WOT at low RPM.

AdamIsAdam

Remember, today's cars are drive by wire, so if you are trying to do something it doesn't like, it may decide not to do it, ie, WOT just off idle. Plus traction control. I say it's nannies, not real hesitation.

Translog

"Were you driving with Auto Start/Stop on and maybe the car was in 3 cylinder mode and then all of a sudden going WOT threw it for a loop?"

I always turn off the Start/Stop as I find it unnerving to hear it go on 3 cylinders. The car can go into that stage at low rpm.

Dyim

Ohhhh, no. Whenever I read a thread titled hesitation about the engine, it brings back memories about my 991.1 C2S.

There was an issue with hesitation/ stumble around 2,500 rpm. Probably one of the greatest unsolved mysteries of the MA1 IMO.

https://rennlist.com/forums/991/9061...ispreloading=1

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...-2500-rpm.html

I don’t think it was ever figured out what really caused it. Seems random and quite inconsistent. My car might have had a very mild case of it, but not consistent.

I hope this is totally unrelated. 🙏

I assume OP is talking about 1st gear only.

skafia

Okay, so got the car back from the dealership after going on a drive with the shop foreman.

I am able to repro this easier:

- complete stop or rolling going slowly in 2nd gear
- clutch is fully disengaged, engine RPM around 1000
- give car significant (but linear) gas

50% of the time it will hesitate (you audibly hear and physically feel the car as it climbs to 1500 and stop). The more gas you give it, the worse it is.

Shop foreman said was this is expected as the car's engine speed is too low for the load (which is what some have said here).

So I'm not 100% sold on this but I have seemed to be able to drive without this happening by letting the clutch out later and making sure my RPMs are a little higher with less gas before accelerating. Basically just take off slower, I mean it makes sense if I wanted to accelerate fast I would be in higher RPMs anyway.

So, my driving habits have been the same with all of my previous manual cars and I have never had to change so I find this kind of odd. I'll drive a friend's GT4/Spyder to see if it's the same, and maybe dyno too out of curiosity.

TLDR: Dealership says nothing wrong, explained why it happens, changed my driving habits and it seems to be ok. So it's either user error or I've been gaslit to believe so.

Edit: Also confirmed auto start/stop disengaged, TCS and nannies all disabled.

Thanks all!

AdamIsAdam

I can understand their explanation, but then again, modern computer-controlled cars with drive by wire throttle should adjust to minimize any hesitation or bucking. Unless that hesitation you are feeling is just that, the car backing down the power. I personally feel that you should be able to floor it at any time. Is that good for the car to lug it? No. Is that the fastest way to accelerate? Of course not. But you should be able to do it without the car objecting.

One more thought: with this car's gears, if you are going slowly and want to accelerate quickly from a roll, shift into first.

Westcoast

I too have never experienced this, I think if you could capture this in a video it might help us understand what you are concerned about.

So initially you said, going from idle to WOT quickly correct? Now are you adding that it will hesitate in the same way during normal take off? The same hesitation from 1000-1500 RPM?

skafia

Yes I agree with you, half of the time it feels great as it should. I'll definitely make a video on this, need to prove if there's another issue or my 24 years of driving MT have been erroneous.

skafia

Yes, ample gas (not WOT), but applied linearly. Chances it goes away increases more if I move car with less gas.

Westcoast

Interesting, I was just thinking of your process and trying to recreate it in other cars... is there any chance you are expecting more acceleration then can be provided in that gear and throttle position? Sometimes people who come from more powerful cars with more torque are expecting the same low end acceleration.

halfmonkey

So, to clarify if I'm understanding you but it seems that you have two scenarios where this is happening.
Scenario A: You've come to a complete stop and I assume you're starting off in first gear.
Scenario B: You're rolling around in 2nd gear maybe around a parking lot or maybe say behind stop and go traffic in 2nd gear.

So my questions for these scenarios:
1. After coming to a complete stop and starting off in 1st gear, are you going WOT from here? You mentioned you're at about 1000 rpm so I'm assume that's basically creeping in 1st gear.
a. If you're doing that and it's lugging, I think something is wrong with your engine because in 1st gear even at creeping speeds, the car should be able to get up and move.
b. If you've come to a complete stop and started off in 1st gear and then shifted to 2nd and you're at 1000 rpm and then go WOT, I would have to say your engine is going to lug. That is too high a gear to be doing WOT from 1000 rpm. I don't know what the speed would correlate to in the 6MT at 1000 rpm but it can't be more than a few mph so to be in 2nd gear at 1000 rpm and going WOT, you're going to lug.

2. I guess this situation would basically be a continuation of the first scenario because if you're rolling around, say creeping in traffic at 1000 rpm and then say a gaps open and you floor it in 2nd gear while at 1000 rpm, you're going to lug the engine. It's seems that you might be in too high of a gear.

May I suggest you keep it in 1st gear at 1000 rpm while starting from a complete stop or while rolling around and then go WOT from there and see what happens?

***** One other point to ask is, is your car properly warmed up too before you've gone WOT?

GAZZ

Ahh yes. 981 GT4 and the 718 GT4 can do it to a lesser degree.
There are a few specific stock ECU engine map "locations" were the tuning under a certain load is not ideal and you get the "hesitation effect".
For the 718, only when; its usually after 5 mins driving from cold start, 3rd gear about 60 kph, mild accel depress. After full operating temp it wont do it. Higher or lower revs wont do it.
981 I never figured out the specific condition, but when it did it, it almost lurched.

momo360

I think I’ve noticed something similar. If you’re at lower rpm say 2500 in 3rd and you go WOT there is a tiny bit of hesitation(1/4 second?) before the engine kicks in. Would this be normal?

I don’t drive like this normally, but when I’m giving a friend a ride and trying to show off the immediate throttle response of an NA car, I notice it haha.

Maybe I’m just used to how my EV has immediate torque when you slam the pedal down.

AdamIsAdam

I would not recommend WOT in 3rd gear at 2500 RPM. That's lugging an engine.

skafia

There are 2 clips, they're both from a stop with the clutch fully disengaged and I'm 1st gear. I am not applying WOT, just a good amount. Pay attention to the tach, you can see RPMs drop.

Car is properly warmed up and auto start/stop disengaged. The GoPro does a good job of preventing shakes but if you look closely you notice the car lunging back and forth.