TRZ06

I test drove a couple manual GT4's before ordering mine with PDK, and while I liked the shift action of it, after reading about grinding issues and slipping clutches, I am SO GLAD I opted for the PDK.

Larry Cable

not had any such complaints (so far) with the Spyder's 6MT - actually never had *any* issues with any of the 6MT boxes on 964, 993, 996.1 996.2, 997.1, 997.2, 991.2 ... all have been great 6MTs ...

Also those problems *could* be caused by the "non-OEM actuator part" that operates the clutch pedal...

TRZ06

Could be, I have no clue.

I did have a bad experience with my 2008 E90 M3 manual, so that is still in the back of my mine. Mine would not shift from 1st to 2nd at a redline shift about 50% of the time. I mean you could not even force it in, it flat out refused the gear until the RPM's dropped below 6K. My F80 M3 was DCT for that reason and that has carried over to the GT4.

Larry Cable

well you (and everyone else) probably are already (painfully) aware of my asymptotic opinion on BMW M products post E46 ... 'nuff said

lilbza

Same reason I'll be going PDK if my allocation comes through. Another deciding factor for me was when I read the reviews on the Deman manual re-gearing, then compared the ratios against the PDK, and they are almost identical, except with the bonus of a 7th gear and 10nm more torque.... was a no brainer in the end.

Zhao

I hope that wasn't your only reason for going PDK. I bet 99%+ of people have none of those issues. DCT's aren't perfect either; people have issues with those too. I had one burn through a clutch in less than 20000km before. Doesn't mean you shouldn't get a PDK though.

Larry Cable

and "out of warranty" replacement costs are significant

Lou L

A couple of PDK track comments as it pertained to my track experiences with it, leaving it in auto. First time at the track with it I had several shifts where it didn't seem to go into the gear I wanted, a little disappointed but when I brought it to the dealer for an oil change, they did an update to the PDK programming automatically, I didn't mention anything. The next time at the track it was a bit better except for one turn, in my subsequent trips to the same track, I drove the car harder, was a bit smoother with my inputs and the car now shifts into the lower gear like I had wanted, so I'm now perfectly happy with the PDK as it is now in all the correct gears for each turn. Just my experience with it.

matttheboatman

If you are feathering in throttle I can see this occurring, but if you are accelerating, it should drop to 2nd quickly, even if just momentarily. A hesitation is unusual.

But, is it really a problem, or only a perceived problem? I understand the unexpected sound and fury of dropping to 2nd gear may be disturbing and unnatural, but is the car's balance being upset? I have discovered it isn't generally. I have also found the more time you are in 2nd gear in a GT4 on track, generally the quicker your lap times. It feels too agressive, but look at your data and compare to holding in 3rd versus the laps where it drops to 2nd. It is suprising.

More connected, YES! Faster, absolutely not. Unless your are controlling for something other than pure performance such as manual control of weight transfer, or extra rotation but not for pure speed. PDK auto is faster.

Not true for most non-pro drivers. And its not just the shifting speed that makes the PDK in auto faster, its a combination of; 1. faster and max rpm timed shifts, 2. workload is reduced / brain power bandwidth expanded, 3. its willingness to eak out every tenth even if it means downshifting for only 1 second, and 4. Its improved braking performance by using the full engine RPM at each downshift. Its a combination of these 4 things, not just one thing, that makes it quicker in auto mode most of the time.

Unexpected sound and fury, I get it. Can be disturbing to the driver. But it is generally faster than leaving the car in a higher gear.

But not faster. One really interesting thing about shifting manually in a pdk car is a driver input error such as an ill-timed upshift can be rectified almost instantaneously with very little impact on track time.

Now that I have disagreed with nearly the entire thread, let me state for the record - this is just my opinion! But many race coaches are giving similar advice to their clients - leave it in PDK auto unless you have a reason to control the gears other than pure speed.

Reedy

It only takes 1 incorrect gear selection in auto mode to undo all of the max RPM shifting advantage that you’re talking about.

Manual mode will generally be faster for anyone above a beginners skill level. It’s not only pro drivers who will be faster by shifting manually. The crossover point is way lower down than you think.

lovetoturn

Auto will be faster for pretty much everyone here reading this thread. We are not smarter than the computer, nor can we continuously pop off perfect shifts hundreds of times during a session. However, having said that, the PDK uses algorithms to control its shift patterns, and these can be variable depending on the aggressiveness of your driving at any given moment. On turn 14 at my home track (ECR), the car will roll into the corner in third on a warm up lap, but when the speed is up and I stand on the brakes, it will go into second. It adjusts itself depending on how you drive the car.

Also, just because it is in auto mode, does not mean that you can't over shift up or down any time that you see fit. At ECR there are four places where I upshift into third so that I don't hold like 7,000+ rpm around a corner. There are two reasons for this: 1) smoother torque application coming out of the corner, and 2) keeping the engine cooler in 95 degree heat. This can also happen at COTA going into the Carousel and then conversely having to downshift into second going up the hill into turn 8. With a PDK, you can have your cake and eat it too. Let it do all the heavy lifting of the routine shifts, and then you can add a little spice to things by pulling a paddle here and there when you need it. I would call that a hybrid strategy which is of course a very popular term these days.

jwr9152

I've spoken with 3 high level pro drivers about PDK and all three said they run in Auto. One went as far to say that auto was better then him. Very rarely do I feel like pdk makes a mistake, but I usually figure out it was something I did and not the pdk. For fun on a twisty road I'll run in manual, if I'm trying to set a fast lap time I'll run in Auto.

Reedy

Do real GT3 cars even have auto mode? None that I know of. What kind of pros are we talking about here? Ones who are driving street cars?

I guess you could justifiably run in Auto and probably be quicker up until you run into the kind of problem that the OP is talking about. But as soon as that becomes an issue you're going to want to start shifting manually. I have never driven an auto on track that did nothing but irritate the heck out of me with its gear selections, but I also haven't driven an auto on track since 2013 (R35 GTR and Mclaren 12C and the McLaren in auto was simply terrible) so its fair to say a newer Porsche gearbox is probably a lot better.

Who am I to comment anyway, I have a manual car and feel shame when I use auto blip. Auto shifting is worse than that.

Lacquer

Sorry, but I have had the exact opposite experience. I have taken a bit of instruction and have yet had a single pro level instructor say leaving a PDK or a DCT in auto will be faster on a road course than manual shifting for anyone other than a basic driver. For the fastest lap time, they always advise and use manual mode..They actually make a point to demonstrated why manual is faster and safer. Basically, No matter how smart PDK is, it cannot predict what the best shift point or gear position is for the track ahead of you, Auto is 100% of the time reacting to a situation. Lap after lap it will always make the same miscalculations, where in manual mode you can select what is best before it is needed.

slilley

I agree with @Lacquer above! My opinion is based solely on my PDK experience with my '22 CGTS4.0. I've got 3 track days, 1 track sprint, and about a half-dozen autocrosses in it.

Another vote here for PDK in manual mode on track. PDK is great, but it doesn't know what's ahead. On track, it's doing a great job with the gear selection 90% of the time, but that other 10% it's not in the gear I'd be in, or it's changing up/down at an inopportune time. On the street I normally leave it in Auto mode, but if I'm out for a back-road ride with friends in their cars, it goes into manual mode for the same reasons. And when it comes to autocrossing, I've not had great experience with the automatic PDK gear selection - so I quickly gave up on leaving it in Auto there as well.

For someone new to track or AutoX, by all means leave it in Auto - that's one less thing you'll have to contend with! But as you gain experience, give the manual mode a shot.