Black_on_black

Hi

i am a relatively new owner to an ‘86 targa and been on the forum here awhile reading. hope my newbie questions are ok.mostly related to new unfamiliar noises and feel of things. I am familiar with the particular new Porsche anxiety feeling as I had a 996 4S before…the 86 is a very different animal, but the DNA is clearly there.

1) the engine makes a kind of howling noise. Not a squeal, more like a howl but not a scream. It varies in volume a little but definitely can be heard. What could make such a noise?

2) when I go over a speedbump, at the back it makes like a wheeze/pssscht noise as the back dips over the bump. Normal?

4) the transmission is newly refurbished with new synchros before I bought it but it is really hard to gauge whether I’m actually in 1st or 2nd gear. Sometimes they positively engage and I can feel slipping past a tight spot and then being in gear, but a lot of the time, I can’t tell. So I move it to neutral, let the clutch in and out, and then reengage. Sometimes this makes it feel like a positive engagement, most times not…so I let the clutch out often very gingerly to listen for the grinding of gear teeth which thankfully has yet to happen. My question is, what are the areas where the feel can be sharpened? There’s a coupler behind the seats, but does anyone have a good DIY thread or video to a complete walkthrough of review and parts exchange, so I can gauge if it’s worth it to tear a lot of things up?

5) what is an acceptable amount of oil drip? There is a profound leakage between the case halves. I would say perhaps 1/10 of a liter per week when just sitting. After a run it will make a drop a minute until it has cooled off. Other leaks from camcovers I’m less worried about…

thanks
Mike

Black_on_black

Another question, anyone ever dismantle the left side indicator stalk? It tends to stick the high beams on all the time, and I read the electricals and draw the conclusion there is no relay (correct?), just the stalk mechanism that would require distmantling and probably a little going over.

a pic from today, so you know it's real

raspritz

‘86 is quite a bit later than my cars, but two things are for sure. First, a properly adjusted and registered old-school manual tranny shifting from one gear through neutral to another gear should provide two distinct sensations as the gears disengage and engage. And if you are really attuned, you can even feel two distinct components for each shift out and shift in as the synchros engage and disengage. Is this your first old-school manual transmission? Perhaps practice shifting very slowly and see if you can pick up the feel. Second, your oil leakage is excessive. My ‘67 and ‘69 do not leak oil. At all. There are many possible reasons for your leakage.

Qtrfoil

Yes, people work on the stalk, and often add a relay to the system. Any chance of getting a video/audio clip of the sound?

Black_on_black

Thanks for responding. my first car was a 1980 Lancia A112 which I drove like I stole it, similarly the next, a Peugeot. I don’t remember any distinctness at all but then I was like 18-20…I traded up quite significantly to a Miata which was where my car enthusiasm took off and even had two of those. Great cars to learn in. Through a numBer of beemers, Audi’s, manuals and automatics and then the 996 - all relatively modern and great shifting cars.

it is really hard to via text explain the feeling, sometimes I can just about make out the gears grabbing, when the revs match and it just slips in. A great feeling, This is what I always aim for but the motor is so revvy (which is wonderful) that matching is pretty hard in traffic. When the revs don’t match, it is pretty tough to “get through” the synchro stage and it feels like I’m pushing too hard. Sometimes I realize at that point I’m already in gear, or at least it picks up drive…I will have a look at the coupler behind the seats as a starter.

I have a film of the howl, but the phone microphone doesn’t really pick it out, it focuses more on the mechanical sounds and exhaust. Let me see if I can upload it somewhere.

the case oil leak thus is a little over the top?

Qtrfoil

I'll let someone else with a 915 transmission answer that part. For the noises I'd start by thinking belt noises, but if it's not a squeal maybe not. I would check the fan to make sure it's still spinning without being out of round and hitting the shroud.

As far as the oil, I might be a little different that most here - there are some things I could live with until dropping the engine for something else. I might just keep adding oil in the mean time. But, yeah, that seems like too much oil to wait on much longer.

For what it's worth, nothing you're talking about is unusual. These are 30+ year-old cars, and something on them is always broken or about to break. It's just that somethings are more expensive/more time-consuming to fix than others. It's only one, but from that picture I'd say you've got one that is very much worth working on.

Black_on_black

Hi

managed to post my video of the sound to youtube. Listen carefully behind the sounds of exhaust and valvetrain you can just about make out the song/“whooooooo” kind of sound, which I dubbed “howl”.

our ears are fantastic, it sounds a lot more in reality than what the microphone picks up.

I put my hand on the IAC because I thought maybe that makes the sound but it clicks, likely back and forth (?) rather than rotating, so it can’t be the idle air controller that makes the howl.

I’m thinking if the fan was touching the shroud in my mind that would make a more grinding type of noise. Did a search now for alternator bearings, maybe that is what it is?



Mike

Vane

Hi Black on Black,

Great car, i have a '85 3.2. First I strongly suggest you join PCS if not already a member.
You are in Sweden, aren't you, looking at your plate?

1. Howling noise. Hopefully you have the toolbag for the car and there the tools to change the fan belt. Take the belt
off to verify the alternator bearing conditions. Run the engine without belt to hear if the sound disappear.
The fan housing is extremely fragile and are prone to crack, this can cause the fan blades to touch. It's quite expensive,
I bought from https://boxerclassiche.com/en/ and it cost 540€. Original is around 1k€. Check this carefully.
I believe it's some magnesium alloy and extremely difficult to weld.
Changing alternator bearings is easy and it might first look difficult to get then cables in the back off, it's not very hard.

2. Sound from back. Sorry no clue. If you join PCS you get contact to other Porsche owners close by and then have some
one ride with you and hopefully can diagnose the sound.

4. Transmission. 915 is a great transmission, but it need to be operated correctly. First verify that the coupling bushings
between rear seat are good, probably if tranny was recently rebuilt. But check anyhow, there should be some amount of play in
them. Lots of info on the web. Think twice before changing to solid bushings or some exotic systems. This is not a race car?
Find also from the web the adjustment of the coupling, this is very important. It was something that the gear stick is at some
position and the coupling turned to some position. Tons of info about this, not difficult to do.
My humble opinion is that the people who criticise 915 transmission haven't take the time to learn how to use it. It need
determined operation, but no force. I shift from 1st to 2nd so that I have a very short, but still a stop between 1st and 2nd,
I just don't pull the stick in one motion. Other might do differently.
And the oil is critical, I was stupid and sold my 911, bought same car back after several years and the guy had put in tranny
Mobil SHC and I thought the syncs are gone, changed back to Swepco 201 and problem gone. I might just imagine, but this
is my feeling.

5. Oil leak. 911 should don't leak. Some leaks are difficult to fix, some not. There is a ton of discussions about this on the web.
Don't go in the trap and buy some fancy valve covers if yours leak. Take them off (oil out first) flatten them with sand paper
and when you re-install them use a torque wrench and the proper torque with new aluminium washers and good quality gasket
> no leak from there. '96 have already the upgraded covers from factory.
Find out where it leaks and then determine how it can be fixed.

Recommend that you purchase the Bentley manual, the originals are also available on the web, same goes with parts list.

Don't know about '86, '85 don't have relays for lights, you can buy the original round sockets ( I got mine from scrapyard) and relays
and at least in '85 there was empty holes to put the relays. Wiring instructions again from the web, quite easy and looks original.
I haven't had problems with the stalk switch, so can't comment on that, but generally these are old cars, lots of people tinker with them
and are sharing their knowledge.

raspritz

#4: Great advice; mirrors what I said above. I thought about giving you this more technical info in my post above, and decided not to. I’m guessing your shift rod splines are registered correctly, as you are not getting grinding. Your description suggests you need a little fore-aft adjustment at the coupler; as Vane said above, be sure to leave a little play in the system. The good news is that Porsche shifters are very easy to adjust if you’ve done it before. The bad news is they are very easy to screw up if you have not done it before. More art than science. There really isn’t much more to say.

#5: Valve cover gaskets (I think that is what Vane meant above by “fancy valve covers”) are not your problem. You describe “profound leakage between the case halves.” Knowing nothing else, I would suspect pulled head studs, and that means an engine rebuild.

Vane

#5. Well, actually not. I know that in the US they sell billet and what ever fancy valve covers because people install the original covers
with cheapo (bad) gaskets and using old al-washers and then tight them by hand > good possibility to create leaks. If you make a very
strong valve cover, it can tolerate more improper installation than the original one. If I remember correctly the valve covers got an update
in 3.2 also, the early ones was light and later they used the sk. turbo covers.
This is to me one of the mysteries; why don't people use torque wrenches and thread locker! They are not that expensive.

To my knowledge the 3.2 don't have the 2.7 mag case stud pulling problem. But there are couple of spots that a prone to leak, as I said
lots of info about these on the web. Let's not scare this guy about splitting the case...
Clean the engine, brake cleaner is not very healthy stuff, and find out where the leak is. Then come back here and most likely someone
has had the same and can tell you how to deal with it.

Black_on_black

Many many Thanks for the great tips. I binged a number of Frankie and Heidi’s garage tonight where they dismantle a 3.2. Super useful.

I can see where it is sweating a little in the valve cover gaskets, mainly exhaust on both sides. There is also leaks in the chain cover near nr1 cylinder and the little rubber piece in the oil tensioner tube near nr1 is sweating.

These are all as can be accepted and truthfully something I can manage on my own in due course as I learn and overcome the fear of breaking stuff. There is also a leak somewhere above cyl 6 trickling down near the exhaust port coming from above which I cant trace the source without dismantling stuff. Very little though and looks more like asphalt as it dries as the volume is so limited.

I am pretty sure it is leaking between the case halves, this is the main leak. I had an idea to clean it off and try to tape around the bottom case so I can validate whether it is coming from above somewhere, as it would then drip along my taped “curtain”.

it will take me a few days as I did a stupid move and really hurt my back, so no car work for a few days. When better I’ll take your tip on removing the fan belt, it can’t be that hard and no the toolkit is unfortunately missing (aaaah) but I have other similar “keys” for suspension struts that will hopefully work to remove the nut. Praying for a simple bearing fix.

I’m not a great fan of club meetups as I just get inferiority issues as other people are usually there to compare how they have cleaned their cars with a toothbrush, their cars are showroom and how many suspension bushings they changed last year and I’m just the guy who likes to drive and tinker, change things when needed only and a little patina and dust is not a huge deal for me…

Mark Salvetti

There is a good chance you have oil leaks on the top of the engine in the back, and they are dripping down and appearing as a leak along the seam. Google "triangle of death". The triangle includes the oil pressure warning light switch, the gasket for the breather for the crankcase, and the o-ring seal for the in-engine oil thermostat. Hard to reach and inspect, but you may be able to inspect with a light and a mirror, or an endoscope. If you remove the air filter and the mass air flow sensor, you'll have much better access. Replacing all these seals probably requires a partial engine drop to get back there with your hands.

Mark

Black_on_black

Mark - thanks, I will have a look when my back is in better shape.

Thinking out loud - the leak is pretty constant (more when the oil is warm of course), i.e. just sitting it drips and never really stops, so if it was at the "top" of the engine, wouldn't it stop at some point as the oil levels out?

Mark Salvetti

Not really. Especially the oil light warning switch and the oil cooler thermostat. It’s not oil level but oil pressure that causes them to leak. At idle the leak may be less because the oil pressure is lower, but if they are the problem they will still leak.

Mark

theiceman

oil system better be constantly under pressure .. or you have real trouble