theiceman

so it really comes down to what an earlier poster wrote. You first have to sit and down and really think about what you want, then decoide how far you are going to take it.

I am big on originality and even still have a lblower motor on it that is gutted as it doesnt work , but i think the original look is awesome. That said i have SSIs and the original crover pipe and cat are gone. But i dont consider this a radical change as earlier cars came this way and it if you has no idea of the car you would not think twice about it ..

But complete EFI , with maybe even an MSD ignition system ? .. well , that's just a bridge too far for me

billy_jack

Just reading through this thread and commend you on your decision and journey.

I lost my dad this year and now have our 76 911s Targa in the garage. He bought it in the mid 80's and we decided to have it restored a few years ago. We probably have around $75k in the full 2.7 rebuild, transmission refresh, electrical, interior and body work for a car valued on the market around $40k. He got to drive it around for a few months and I have a saved voice mail from him just expressing his enjoyment as he was cruising down A1A.

Bottom line is that I'd spend double that if I had to, just to keep this car around. At least until my boys become the new custodians.

Enjoy!

Mike Murphy

My friend’s father gave him his 356 that was parked in a garage for the last 30 years (thrown rod). My friend spent $100k to have it fully restored. It’s now worth $100k or more. Regardless, his father saw the car, drove it, and said it was better than new.

Emotionally, it’s a small price to pay, even if it’s a lot of money, still could be worth it.

Aside from that, there is some reward in fixing up an old car. It’s a car you saved
from the wrecking ball. It’s not bad for the environment. And you end up with a real driver’s car. A feeling you just cannot get with a modern car today.

david05111

Thanks for the kind words, guys. No real update on the car at the moment. It's still being worked on in the shop. I emailed them asking for some quotes for the three injections options: to fix the CIS, convert to EFI, and convert to PMO carbs. Haven;t heard back yet.

I'll be out of town for 2-3 weeks. I'm hoping that when I get back, the car will be pretty close to being ready to run again.

david05111

Engine is back in the car. Car has been detailed. I may have them do some more work on it that they haven't done yet.

The thing they're waiting on now at the moment is the exhaust. I'm going to put an M&K MK27 on it (dual in, single out). I called them and they told me it would be a few weeks to get one. I also somehow missed an auction for one a few weeks back on pcar market.

If anyone knows where I can get one immediately, like you have one sitting in your garage or you know someone who does, please PM me. Otherwise, I'll just have to wait it out.

Mark Salvetti

You could try a WTB ad on Pelican. These mufflers have been listed on occasion, but I don't see any now. There is a dual-outlet version for sale.

Just be careful of scammers answering a WTB. Try to limit to established sellers.

Mark

theiceman

what did you end up doing for fuel management ??? never heard back with what direction you went in.

pfbz

You need to find a different shop. I would do zero additional work with the ones whom have given you the current quotes. Find one with older mechanics that have lots of familiarity with porsche air cooled motors and are used to actually repairing stuff, not just generating huge invoices.

There is little reason that a CIS engine can't run great, and the usual reasons for EFI conversion have more to do with increased performance, not just getting an older low mileage and completely original SC running.

Atshl

It sounds like the vehicle is on a good path for return to service

david05111

UPDATE:

The car is running. Since around August, it's been at a local shop having a number of things done, including a top-end rebuild. It also had a CIS rebuild and a new airbox, amongst a host of other things that I'll detail in a future post.

I could use some information/advice though. First thing to say is that with the heat exchangers and the M&K exhaust, it sounds like a race car. It's awesome. The throttle response is also pretty incredible.

But the idle is a little strange. It so strange in fact that the shop thinks that there may be a CAM in the car from decades past. It sort of "lopes", though I would tend to describe it as surging.

First off, you have to feather the throttle when you start it. As its turning over, feed it some gas I mean. After cold start, it seems to happily sit at around 2k RPM. As it warms up, the idle starts to creep down to around 1400 or so. You can drive it a little bit and then when it's really starting to warm, the RPMs drop further and then rather significantly begin to oscillate between say 400 and 1100 RPM. It's bad enough that if you have the car in first gear and are just riding the idle, it's like a loping muscle car; you're getting bucked around pretty good.

Now, when you're actually driving it at speed (say over 2k rpm), the thing is smooth as butter. It revs very freely and there aren't any issues. But when you push that clutch in and the RPMs come down, the surging/loping starts back up again. You basically have to feather the gas pedal at low speeds to try and keep it steady.

The shop seems to have gotten the CIS dialed in, or as best I can tell. The engine doesn't hesitate at all; there are no hiccups. If you stab the gas, it revs more freely than any other car I've driven. If the CIS was acting up or not quite right, I'd expect to get some hesitation or other symptoms.

I did some reading and what I found suggests either a) there's a vacuum leak somewhere, b) it's running overly rich for some reason and that's causing issues when it warms up, or c) something like the warm-up regulator being faulty. The latter doesn't sound right; it seems to run best when it's actually warming up. I have to say that the car does seem to be running rich to me. Up until today, I'd never driven it before and the last time it started and I rode in it was when I was like 7-9 years old. It's fair to say I have no baseline when it comes to what to expect from it. It's also hard for me to tell, as it doesn't have cats anymore; with the heat exchangers and that exhaust, I could just be imagining it. It does produce some black smoke, but again, not really sure if it's normal or not.

But the idle can't possibly be normal, even if there is some CAM in there from the past that I'm completely unaware of. My father bought the car new, and i seriously doubt he had any major engine work like that done on it. He just wasn't the type. It's conceivable to me that the dealership he bought it from may have had some sort of side performance work done to the car before being sold, attaching some sort of side sticker to it with like "performance tune" or something on it. But I have no evidence for any of that.

All I have right now is a car with significant idle lope/surge and I'm not quite sure how to resolve it. The shop still has it and is working on a few other items for me, and they're planning on having another look at the engine. But they aren't a tuning shop, and they don't have a sniffer. If the A/F mixture is off or something and needs to be adjusted, these guys aren't the ones to handle that I don't think.

Basically, I need some ideas. A lot of work has gone into the car so far, and it's come a heck of a LONG way. But we're not done yet, and I want to make sure I'm researching everything I can to make sure we get it right.

I'll see about posting some video and a few pictures tomorrow.

Mark Salvetti

I think it is probably vacuum leak/warm up regulator related. Did they use the gauges to monitor fuel pressure in the system from cold to warm conditions? That is one thing that should definitely be done.

The loping idle is a symptom of too rich, you just have to figure out why. You can get your own set of gauges to check the fuel pressures or find another shop that has the ability to check the air-fuel ratio as well (you'll probably have to find one anyway before you are done).

I think if the pressures are OK, then you probably have a vacuum leak or maybe all you need to do is adjust the mixture screw.

Mark

theiceman

if you have to give it gas to start it, the CIS is NOT dialed in , something is wrong. sounds like control pressure is off or you have a vacuum leak somewhere.

i have a 964 cam in mine and it can sound a little lumpy when cold , but that's it.

rstarga

Didn't they check the cams when they did the top end?
How did they dial in the CIS without an AFM?

theiceman

i've actually wondered how this is done . I would imagine you have to send the cams out to be profiled, unless they are marked when they are redone.

an SC stock cam can be ground and reprofiled to the "964 grind" . unless the grinder put some marks on it , it is quite subtle and i'm not sure how the rebuilder would know, as it would carry the SC part number.

Mark Salvetti

But that's the rub with CIS cams, isn't it? There are no aggressive cams that work with CIS, so I think it is unlikely that it has any.

To me it sounds like the shop got the CIS close, more or less by feel. I think they can hide a lot of issues with the mixture screw, but that won't work across the RPM range. They may have used the screw to adjust the mixture so it runs strong above 2,000 rpm, but it's not working at idle.

Some good videos on CIS setup here, including smoke testing for vacuum leaks: https://joe-engineer.com/
Also here at Klassik Automotive: https://www.youtube.com/@klassikats

Mark