Seattle Engine Drop II
10-22-2006, 05:23 AM
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Seattle Engine Drop II
Well we managed to drop the engine today. 3 1/2 hours. Jeremy couldn't make it unfortunately. Thought I would share what we did. We went pretty much by the Pelican Parts article combined with the Bentley manual for the tranny drop component. I felt like I knew exactly what was going on up to step three, drain oil, and then it was a very fast blur. No point in me reiterating the protocol, but here is what I learned, what I would suggest, where we had problems, and some photos of what we did.
Team: Doug was unquestionably the expert today. After a 3 hour drive from Oregon, I turned my head for a second, and he was suddenly wearing his coveralls and he got after it! Bob is my colleague from work. He used to tear into cars as a teen. Jordan my nephew did his first oil drain. I was the newbie mechanic. I was really trying to do too much. If you are going to photograph things it would be helpful to assign someone to the camera. Or, find a way to rig it around your neck. Only the guys know how many times I yelled, "Wait, I need to shoot this, where is the camera!"
Special tools: 36, 30mm wrenches for the oil lines. Small snap ring pliers for circlip on small lever arm at clutch assembly. 2 6-ton jackstands. Jack pad tool. Electric impact wrench. That's about it.
Yes, first thing we did was disconnect the battery and remove the fuel pump relay.
Photo: BumperOff. Ice, should have took your advice and removed the bumper. I don't understand why people even consider this step optional. We used 6 ton jacks at the back and 2 ton jacks at the front. With the bumper on and the engine dropped, Doug announced we needed to raise the car an additional foot to clear the bumper. We removed the bumper. This step was the last thing we did, and it was the only one I had no idea what was going on because I hadn't studied up on it. From the bottom of the center reflector to the floor was 34 inches. I recall we still had to put a jack pad in and put 3.5 inches of wood block under it and raise the car on one side some more to clear the top.
Photo: BeerBurger. Here is the team at the end, on the deck eating burgers. Bob, Jordan, James, Doug. Here is a movie of the engine dropping. (Hope it works.) Photo: Doug's jack plate. I've read about this, but now having used it, it really is the best way to get the car up. Why? Because you can get the front and rear jack stands supporting the car on one side, then move to the other.
Photo: JordanOilLine. We used balloons to cover up the oil lines. Worked great. Zep penetrating oil seemed to work great. Anything I hit with Zep in advance was no problem. Photo: Bob and Doug removing clutch cable, etc. Photo: RemoveAccelLinkBar. Use a small wrench to torque the accelerator pull rod ball-joint end. Mine was stuck. Wayne mentions he bent his. So Doug used a small wrench to torque it off. Photo: ImpactCVBolt. we used an impact wrench and two extensions to remove the CV bolts. Doug's voice of experience. Probably wouldn't use it to put CV bolts back in later for fear of galling. Photo: JamesAtWork. This was the only photo of me working.
That's the problem when you are the photographer.
Photo: ShiftCoupler. Had a small problem with the shift coupler screw. I thought I stripped the head of the screw with my allen wrench. Should have squirted with Zep several times earlier this week. Turns out I didn't push the allen key in far enough. Doug hammered the allen key all the way to the bottom of the screw head and this worked, thank god. Photo: BobFun. We used plastic bags and twine to suspend our CV axles.
Photo: MotorcycleJack. We use a Sear's jack and a scrap piece of fiberboard. Fit perfectly. The jack is broad, and with the addition of the board it was very sturdy and very low profile. Photo: EngineStartDown. From the center tunnel, I labeled which wire went to the green wire of speed sensor wires. Jordan guided the wires and the shift rod. We supported the tranny crossmount with my other jack. We used an impact wrench to remove the rear sway bar, links, etc. We also used it to remove the tranny mount bolts and engine mount bolts. Photo: EngineComingOut.
Photo: Jordan1stDrop. In the end, Jordan thought he didn't do much, but actually he did alot. He was so tired he took a nap for 3 hours! (uh, so did I.) Photo: JamesTranny. Desperate last minute attempt to document my participation. Photo: CVFree, CVClose, EngineBay, RearWheelOff, DougSC.
Photo: DropTeam. Jordan, James, Doug and Bob. I think this could be done completely by first timers, but to have somone experienced help you is invaluable. Thanks to Doug, Bob and Jordan.
Tomorow Jordan and I will separate the engine and tranny, so I will post more shots of the engine then. We'll replace my rear brake rotors and remove my rear calipers to rebuild. Remove clutch. Probably save the transmission for next week, but would like to drain the tranny fluid.
Not sure how I will get the engine up on the engine stand. Probably four strong friends, but a rented cherry picker is an option.
Team: Doug was unquestionably the expert today. After a 3 hour drive from Oregon, I turned my head for a second, and he was suddenly wearing his coveralls and he got after it! Bob is my colleague from work. He used to tear into cars as a teen. Jordan my nephew did his first oil drain. I was the newbie mechanic. I was really trying to do too much. If you are going to photograph things it would be helpful to assign someone to the camera. Or, find a way to rig it around your neck. Only the guys know how many times I yelled, "Wait, I need to shoot this, where is the camera!"
Special tools: 36, 30mm wrenches for the oil lines. Small snap ring pliers for circlip on small lever arm at clutch assembly. 2 6-ton jackstands. Jack pad tool. Electric impact wrench. That's about it.
Yes, first thing we did was disconnect the battery and remove the fuel pump relay.
Photo: BumperOff. Ice, should have took your advice and removed the bumper. I don't understand why people even consider this step optional. We used 6 ton jacks at the back and 2 ton jacks at the front. With the bumper on and the engine dropped, Doug announced we needed to raise the car an additional foot to clear the bumper. We removed the bumper. This step was the last thing we did, and it was the only one I had no idea what was going on because I hadn't studied up on it. From the bottom of the center reflector to the floor was 34 inches. I recall we still had to put a jack pad in and put 3.5 inches of wood block under it and raise the car on one side some more to clear the top.
Photo: BeerBurger. Here is the team at the end, on the deck eating burgers. Bob, Jordan, James, Doug. Here is a movie of the engine dropping. (Hope it works.) Photo: Doug's jack plate. I've read about this, but now having used it, it really is the best way to get the car up. Why? Because you can get the front and rear jack stands supporting the car on one side, then move to the other.
Photo: JordanOilLine. We used balloons to cover up the oil lines. Worked great. Zep penetrating oil seemed to work great. Anything I hit with Zep in advance was no problem. Photo: Bob and Doug removing clutch cable, etc. Photo: RemoveAccelLinkBar. Use a small wrench to torque the accelerator pull rod ball-joint end. Mine was stuck. Wayne mentions he bent his. So Doug used a small wrench to torque it off. Photo: ImpactCVBolt. we used an impact wrench and two extensions to remove the CV bolts. Doug's voice of experience. Probably wouldn't use it to put CV bolts back in later for fear of galling. Photo: JamesAtWork. This was the only photo of me working.
That's the problem when you are the photographer. Photo: ShiftCoupler. Had a small problem with the shift coupler screw. I thought I stripped the head of the screw with my allen wrench. Should have squirted with Zep several times earlier this week. Turns out I didn't push the allen key in far enough. Doug hammered the allen key all the way to the bottom of the screw head and this worked, thank god. Photo: BobFun. We used plastic bags and twine to suspend our CV axles.
Photo: MotorcycleJack. We use a Sear's jack and a scrap piece of fiberboard. Fit perfectly. The jack is broad, and with the addition of the board it was very sturdy and very low profile. Photo: EngineStartDown. From the center tunnel, I labeled which wire went to the green wire of speed sensor wires. Jordan guided the wires and the shift rod. We supported the tranny crossmount with my other jack. We used an impact wrench to remove the rear sway bar, links, etc. We also used it to remove the tranny mount bolts and engine mount bolts. Photo: EngineComingOut.
Photo: Jordan1stDrop. In the end, Jordan thought he didn't do much, but actually he did alot. He was so tired he took a nap for 3 hours! (uh, so did I.) Photo: JamesTranny. Desperate last minute attempt to document my participation. Photo: CVFree, CVClose, EngineBay, RearWheelOff, DougSC.
Photo: DropTeam. Jordan, James, Doug and Bob. I think this could be done completely by first timers, but to have somone experienced help you is invaluable. Thanks to Doug, Bob and Jordan.
Tomorow Jordan and I will separate the engine and tranny, so I will post more shots of the engine then. We'll replace my rear brake rotors and remove my rear calipers to rebuild. Remove clutch. Probably save the transmission for next week, but would like to drain the tranny fluid.
Not sure how I will get the engine up on the engine stand. Probably four strong friends, but a rented cherry picker is an option.
10-22-2006, 05:30 AM
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I forgot to mention the fuel accumulator. You remove the line at the bottom and expect alot of gas to come out the bottom. 1 cup full. Dried up with rags. The fuel filter needs the line at the top to be removed. Photo: FuelAccum.
10-23-2006, 02:30 AM
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Mystery
Had to go for it today. First photo was a mysterious protrusion from the bottom of my tranny. Some kind of gear on it. 2 photos: turned out to be from the clutch fork. (still learning the nomenclature) I separated the tranny today. The starter came off too easy. Photo: look at all the dirt on the starter. I would think there is a gasket between the starter and the tranny housing, but there wasn't one, so all kinds of dirt got on the starter and crept into the housing.
Got a little ahead of myself. First thing Jordan and I did was remove the CIS. 4 Photos: the intake bolts were relatively easy. Used socket set, and got to have all of the attachments like extensions and swivels so you can get in there. Labeled all of the wiring. Had to disconnect the accelerator. I don't see how you could get this out with the engine still in. But with Jordan on one side and me on the other, once we figured out where all of the wires were hiding, it pulls right up.
2 Photos: here is a mess. Basically this is why I pulled the engine. My PPI mechanics told me I had a leak from the usual spots and would have to pull the engine to fix it. I think all of these seals add up to less than 10 bucks. Photo: look at my bell crank bushings. Wait, there are no bushings. Doug pointed this out to me yesterday and looks like an easy thing to stick a few bronze bushings in there. Doug said it would really change the feel of my gas pedal, because you have to move the pedal quite a ways before any movement to the throttle on the CIS is experienced.
Photo: here is the tranny beginning to separate. Jordan had to fly back, so I had my neighbor watch for the engine flipping backwards. The engine/tranny were balanced on my jack, so I was a little worried. I sort of stradled the tranny, put a jack under the housing to support it once off, and just sort of shimied side to side and it was off. No major drama. What a relief.
Got a little ahead of myself. First thing Jordan and I did was remove the CIS. 4 Photos: the intake bolts were relatively easy. Used socket set, and got to have all of the attachments like extensions and swivels so you can get in there. Labeled all of the wiring. Had to disconnect the accelerator. I don't see how you could get this out with the engine still in. But with Jordan on one side and me on the other, once we figured out where all of the wires were hiding, it pulls right up.
2 Photos: here is a mess. Basically this is why I pulled the engine. My PPI mechanics told me I had a leak from the usual spots and would have to pull the engine to fix it. I think all of these seals add up to less than 10 bucks. Photo: look at my bell crank bushings. Wait, there are no bushings. Doug pointed this out to me yesterday and looks like an easy thing to stick a few bronze bushings in there. Doug said it would really change the feel of my gas pedal, because you have to move the pedal quite a ways before any movement to the throttle on the CIS is experienced.
Photo: here is the tranny beginning to separate. Jordan had to fly back, so I had my neighbor watch for the engine flipping backwards. The engine/tranny were balanced on my jack, so I was a little worried. I sort of stradled the tranny, put a jack under the housing to support it once off, and just sort of shimied side to side and it was off. No major drama. What a relief.
10-23-2006, 02:46 AM
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5 Photos: just marching down the Bentley protocol, since the clutch was now staring at me, I took off the pressure plate bolts. They seemed to be on there pretty loose. I pulled off the very heavy pressure plate and the clutch plate fell out. Here is what they look like, front and back. I was glad I don't have the exploding rubber centered clutch. I will show these to my friend Ognian, a mechanic next to where I work.
Photo: here is my flywheel. I got the special 12point, 12mm tool from Tool Town. It is a kit of 4 by Lisle in Iowa. Weird tool. You put it into a 1/4 sized socket. The socket holds the tool like it were a bolt, so it is not tight and the tool keeps falling out. But the set cost only 18 bucks so I can't complain. Looks like I will only use this tool rarely. Anyway, my flywheel bolts were on super tight, so I just used Zep and called it a day.
Photo: here is the inside of my tranny. Although the starter had no gasket, the dirt stayed out of the main body of the inside.
I am getting into a rhythm of identifying the anatomy, removing it, then bagging or tagging it. But my garage was a mess so I took a little time to organize my tools. Ice, I had the engine on the motorcycle stand all day yesterday and today, but I lowered it onto blocks of wood 7 inches high. I still am using the scrap piece of particle board as my base. One of my balloons from the oil line from the engine filled with oil after 2 days of drainage, so I changed it. That system works great. I didn't want to leave the engine on a jack for a long time. I figured the jack isn't designed to do that, so it might fail. Cody, yes that sure is Lake Washington. It was a nice weekend here, no?
Photo: here is my flywheel. I got the special 12point, 12mm tool from Tool Town. It is a kit of 4 by Lisle in Iowa. Weird tool. You put it into a 1/4 sized socket. The socket holds the tool like it were a bolt, so it is not tight and the tool keeps falling out. But the set cost only 18 bucks so I can't complain. Looks like I will only use this tool rarely. Anyway, my flywheel bolts were on super tight, so I just used Zep and called it a day.
Photo: here is the inside of my tranny. Although the starter had no gasket, the dirt stayed out of the main body of the inside.
I am getting into a rhythm of identifying the anatomy, removing it, then bagging or tagging it. But my garage was a mess so I took a little time to organize my tools. Ice, I had the engine on the motorcycle stand all day yesterday and today, but I lowered it onto blocks of wood 7 inches high. I still am using the scrap piece of particle board as my base. One of my balloons from the oil line from the engine filled with oil after 2 days of drainage, so I changed it. That system works great. I didn't want to leave the engine on a jack for a long time. I figured the jack isn't designed to do that, so it might fail. Cody, yes that sure is Lake Washington. It was a nice weekend here, no?
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10-23-2006, 03:25 AM
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Very cool. Thanks for the pics and the writeup. Did you have a shudder in your clutch? I ask because the flywheel (and pressure plate) look like they have seen some oil contamination. Is that oil from a rear main seal that has the inside of the flywheel wet?
Sounds like it took less than 4 hours to pull the motor? Wow.. that's encouraging. I hope I don't have to do this myself any time soon but if I do.. seems like it's not a 3-day project as some vehicles have been. PLUS.. don't need not stinking cherry picker lift..
I wish I could have made it over there, but single-dad duties take priority...
Sounds like it took less than 4 hours to pull the motor? Wow.. that's encouraging. I hope I don't have to do this myself any time soon but if I do.. seems like it's not a 3-day project as some vehicles have been. PLUS.. don't need not stinking cherry picker lift..
I wish I could have made it over there, but single-dad duties take priority...
10-23-2006, 11:21 AM
#12
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Foto,
Good eye. That is probably oil on the pressure plate. Not a 100% sure. Never seen one up close. On the flywheel, it looks so gross only because I just sprayed penetrating oil on it. The oil from the breather gasket, thermostat, etc leaked right over the front edge of the engine and covered the mating point of the engine and tranny. Look at the photo where I show the two starting to separate. I guess some oil got in there. The tranny to engine bolts are not very tight, and there is no seal.
Ice,
Look at the second to last photo. Some of the oil also ran down the passenger side of the tranny and it is caking the engine tin. That is the black shiny thing. It really doesn't look that shiny up close. Just the flash photo I guess. From there, the oil ran all over the rear of the starter and where it mates with the tranny. Since there is no gasket at the starter/tranny mate, the oil over time leaked in there.
I remember going to the PPI head mechanic at Gerber Motorsports, Mark. The car was up on the lift. He took me under the car with a flashlight and started looking under there. Initially the PPI said there was an oil leak, and that the engine would need to be pressure washed so they could make a diagnosis. But Mark, at my post-purchase service, took a closer look and was confident the leaks were from some where up there. I call it the triangle of doom now. I wasn't sure at the time how he concluded this, I recall he just showed me the path of the oil, but now it makes sense to me and he was right. I also remember hearing at the time that it would take around a thousand dollars in labor to fix the oil leak. If that's true, then a thousand dollars saved!
Last night I got the flywheel off. I will show it to Ognian and take some photos for you guys. The weekend is over and I need to go into heart doc mode.
Good eye. That is probably oil on the pressure plate. Not a 100% sure. Never seen one up close. On the flywheel, it looks so gross only because I just sprayed penetrating oil on it. The oil from the breather gasket, thermostat, etc leaked right over the front edge of the engine and covered the mating point of the engine and tranny. Look at the photo where I show the two starting to separate. I guess some oil got in there. The tranny to engine bolts are not very tight, and there is no seal.
Ice,
Look at the second to last photo. Some of the oil also ran down the passenger side of the tranny and it is caking the engine tin. That is the black shiny thing. It really doesn't look that shiny up close. Just the flash photo I guess. From there, the oil ran all over the rear of the starter and where it mates with the tranny. Since there is no gasket at the starter/tranny mate, the oil over time leaked in there.
I remember going to the PPI head mechanic at Gerber Motorsports, Mark. The car was up on the lift. He took me under the car with a flashlight and started looking under there. Initially the PPI said there was an oil leak, and that the engine would need to be pressure washed so they could make a diagnosis. But Mark, at my post-purchase service, took a closer look and was confident the leaks were from some where up there. I call it the triangle of doom now. I wasn't sure at the time how he concluded this, I recall he just showed me the path of the oil, but now it makes sense to me and he was right. I also remember hearing at the time that it would take around a thousand dollars in labor to fix the oil leak. If that's true, then a thousand dollars saved!
Last night I got the flywheel off. I will show it to Ognian and take some photos for you guys. The weekend is over and I need to go into heart doc mode.
10-23-2006, 11:29 AM
#13
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Foto,
The photo of me with the allen socket wrench on the pressure plate bolt show some new oil, but that is my Zep penetrant. I am not sure if the pressure plate has oil from the leak on it. I will see what Ognian says. BTW, Ognian is a Saab mechanic who works on my Saab.
The photo of me with the allen socket wrench on the pressure plate bolt show some new oil, but that is my Zep penetrant. I am not sure if the pressure plate has oil from the leak on it. I will see what Ognian says. BTW, Ognian is a Saab mechanic who works on my Saab.
10-23-2006, 10:45 PM
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Hi James,
Well done. You and Jordan really got after it. You've made some great progress.
How did the boots look on the airbox? Do you have all the gaskets to put the CIS back on? I may have them if you don't.
My trip home was uneventfull. Hooked up with a black car like Bob's and off we went!! 2hrs 40mins door to door.
Let me know when your ready to put it back in.....not that you'll need my help now, but it would be a good excuse to make a run North.
Thanks again for letting me help tear your car apart. When do we do the BLUE car????
Doug
Well done. You and Jordan really got after it. You've made some great progress.
How did the boots look on the airbox? Do you have all the gaskets to put the CIS back on? I may have them if you don't.
My trip home was uneventfull. Hooked up with a black car like Bob's and off we went!! 2hrs 40mins door to door.
Let me know when your ready to put it back in.....not that you'll need my help now, but it would be a good excuse to make a run North.
Thanks again for letting me help tear your car apart. When do we do the BLUE car????
Doug
10-23-2006, 10:59 PM
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James,
Just checked the gas milage for my trip. With all the stuff thats been done to the engine I got 25 MPG round trip. I thought that was pretty good all things considered. Who says you can't have performance and good milage too.
Have fun,
Doug
Just checked the gas milage for my trip. With all the stuff thats been done to the engine I got 25 MPG round trip. I thought that was pretty good all things considered. Who says you can't have performance and good milage too.
Have fun,
Doug