RS vs RSR ?
11-08-2006, 04:24 PM
#2
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The RS is typically intended for street use, meaning it can be registered. The RSR is a factory race car, probably impossible to register for street use. I'm refering to any given RS, RSR be it 911, 964 , 993 etc. I'm sure plenty of people on here can go into specific detail on what the differances are. Then you have the RS America (what I have), which is a bull**** verson of the 964 RS. 
Last edited by GG Allin; 11-08-2006 at 07:37 PM.
11-08-2006, 06:16 PM
#3
more or less,...
- the RS _was_ raced - there are different classes (Groups) with different rules re $, cars sold/produced & etc. Different versions of the RS existed - one for touring & one for racing.
RS usually means a 1973 RS - but P AG has used the term to apply to various versions of the 964, 993, and others. There was an SC_RS too - a rally car of which only 20 were made.
Can you post a more specific question?
Also, my compilation tables were recently taken down by R Gruppe and Thom F. who were hosting them. If anybody wants to host them I'll supply them in MS Word format. I'm too busy to mess with figuring out how to put them up myself. The comparison table might be useful for this question...
- the RS _was_ raced - there are different classes (Groups) with different rules re $, cars sold/produced & etc. Different versions of the RS existed - one for touring & one for racing.
RS usually means a 1973 RS - but P AG has used the term to apply to various versions of the 964, 993, and others. There was an SC_RS too - a rally car of which only 20 were made.
Can you post a more specific question?
Also, my compilation tables were recently taken down by R Gruppe and Thom F. who were hosting them. If anybody wants to host them I'll supply them in MS Word format. I'm too busy to mess with figuring out how to put them up myself. The comparison table might be useful for this question...
11-08-2006, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by randywebb
Can you post a more specific question?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showt...&highlight=rsr
I've just heard both RS & RSR and was just confused as to the difference. Was it the RS or the RSR that was more expensive and hard to find?
11-08-2006, 09:56 PM
#6
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In 1973, the RS has homologated as a production car, while the RSR was a factory race car, used in events where homologation wasn't an issue. The RSR initially had to run in prototype classes -- and surprisingly, won some big races that way.
The RSR is rarer. It has wider wheel flares -- 9 and 11 inch, compared to the RS's 7 and 9 inch. It had a 2.8 liter engine tuned to 280-300 horsepower, compared to the 2.7 in the RS putting out 210 hp. I belive the RSR was lighter, too. It probably wasn't street legal anywhere, although I don't know how that was determined back then. The RS was a street legal race car, but was not initially imported to the U.S.
The RSR is rarer. It has wider wheel flares -- 9 and 11 inch, compared to the RS's 7 and 9 inch. It had a 2.8 liter engine tuned to 280-300 horsepower, compared to the 2.7 in the RS putting out 210 hp. I belive the RSR was lighter, too. It probably wasn't street legal anywhere, although I don't know how that was determined back then. The RS was a street legal race car, but was not initially imported to the U.S.
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11-09-2006, 10:04 PM
#9
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This may be more than you want to know. This is an article I wrote a few years ago for our local PCA regional magazine:
What the heck IS a 911 R / RS / RSR?
Over the years, Porsche has used different naming descriptors to indicate special models. Carrera, for example, which is Spanish for "race", had been used since the 1950's to indicate higher performance production models, although that distinction disappeared after 1983. Some performance models have been named "Club Sports" or have an "S" associated with the model name. Then there are those letters, "R", "RS" (Renn Sport), and "RSR" (Renn Sport Rennen), which have been used on special street or racing models built with the goal of homologating (build a quantity of a car model to be eligible for a racing class) them. Prior to the 996's, the RS model has typically been the consumer version of the racing RSR model, with homologation based on RS sales. With 996's, up until this year, the R and RS have been applied to racing-only Porsche's. In October 2003, Porsche is releasing the 911 GT3RS for non-US consumer sales. The usage of R and RS hasn't been limited only to 911's, as there were others, for example, like the 924 GTR, 944 GTR, and 968 Turbo RS.
The first 911 in this category was the 911R, with twenty made in 1967. These were lightweight 911's, at 1830 pounds, with a 210 hp engine. They set a number of world track records and won the 1969 Marathon de la Route. Next is what some consider the penultimate 911, the 1973 911RS. Here the factory planned on building 500 in order to race in Group 4 GT racing. There were 3 models built: the 911RS Touring, which was closest to full street trim, 911RS Sport, aka lightweight, which was stripped of most people comforts, and the 911RS Rennsport, which was the 2.8L racing version. What made the 1973 RS special was it's overall balance: first appearance of the "duck" tail which reduced lift, 210 hp 2.7L engine (308 hp in the 2.8L engine) driving a 2,368 lb (RSR 1,982 lb) platform, the first 911 with wider wheels in back, and larger rear flares, all at a cost of around $12,500. The model was so popular, that Porsche built 1590 by the end of 1973, qualifying the RS for Group 3 GT Racing. In 1973, the RSR won the Daytona 24 hour and Sebring races. This model was carried into the 1974 year with a 3.0L 230 hp engine in the RS and 330 hp in the RSR. The 1974 3.0 RS was the first Porsche production model to use four piston aluminum brake calipers. They were produced in limited quantities: 109 RS's and 65 RSR's. In addition, there were 4 Carrera RSR Turbo 2.1's, which were run by the factory in the prototype class as test beds that would evolve into the 935.
The next RS used the 1983 911SC as a base. 20 of the 911SC RS's were delivered in 1984 for race and rally, with a 255 hp mechanically injected engine, Turbo brakes, and aluminum and fiberglass` body parts.
In 1991, building on the 964, Porsche produced the Carrera RS, as a 1992 model. This was available in three versions, the competition model, the basic model which was geared more towards racing, and the touring model for street usage. 1916 of the basic model were produced, and came without undercoating or sound deadening material. They had manual mirrors, racing seats, manual steering, manual windows, a master kill switch, and a smaller carpet in the front trunk. 76 touring models were built, with sports seats, as well as most of the 964 standard features. 290 of the competition version were built. While the RS's were not imported into the U.S., there were 45 cars brought in for the Carrera Cup USA series, which was cancelled before it started, due to lack of sponsorship. The 45 cars, which were Carrera RS's with U.S. safety equipment, were sold as the 'Carrera Cup USA edition'. Extending this in 1993, Porsche produced the $140,000 Carrera RS 3.8 (street version) and RSR 3.8 (racing only). Here, an almost entirely new engine (new crankcase, pistons, rocker arms, valves, additional oil cooler, air filter, exhaust, intake manifolds, and air mass sensor) was developed, with the 2662 lb RS 3.8 developing 300 hp and the 2464 lb RSR 3.8 at 325 hp (compared to the stock 3034 lb 964 with 247 hp). The G-50 5 speed gearbox for both included a 40/40% limited slip. A lightened Turbo body was used, and both came with 9x18 (235/40) and 11x18 (285/35) wheels (tires). The engine's new exhaust system and air mass sensor appeared on 993's the following year. 55 RS 3.8's and 45 RSR 3.8's were produced.
What the heck IS a 911 R / RS / RSR?
Over the years, Porsche has used different naming descriptors to indicate special models. Carrera, for example, which is Spanish for "race", had been used since the 1950's to indicate higher performance production models, although that distinction disappeared after 1983. Some performance models have been named "Club Sports" or have an "S" associated with the model name. Then there are those letters, "R", "RS" (Renn Sport), and "RSR" (Renn Sport Rennen), which have been used on special street or racing models built with the goal of homologating (build a quantity of a car model to be eligible for a racing class) them. Prior to the 996's, the RS model has typically been the consumer version of the racing RSR model, with homologation based on RS sales. With 996's, up until this year, the R and RS have been applied to racing-only Porsche's. In October 2003, Porsche is releasing the 911 GT3RS for non-US consumer sales. The usage of R and RS hasn't been limited only to 911's, as there were others, for example, like the 924 GTR, 944 GTR, and 968 Turbo RS.
The first 911 in this category was the 911R, with twenty made in 1967. These were lightweight 911's, at 1830 pounds, with a 210 hp engine. They set a number of world track records and won the 1969 Marathon de la Route. Next is what some consider the penultimate 911, the 1973 911RS. Here the factory planned on building 500 in order to race in Group 4 GT racing. There were 3 models built: the 911RS Touring, which was closest to full street trim, 911RS Sport, aka lightweight, which was stripped of most people comforts, and the 911RS Rennsport, which was the 2.8L racing version. What made the 1973 RS special was it's overall balance: first appearance of the "duck" tail which reduced lift, 210 hp 2.7L engine (308 hp in the 2.8L engine) driving a 2,368 lb (RSR 1,982 lb) platform, the first 911 with wider wheels in back, and larger rear flares, all at a cost of around $12,500. The model was so popular, that Porsche built 1590 by the end of 1973, qualifying the RS for Group 3 GT Racing. In 1973, the RSR won the Daytona 24 hour and Sebring races. This model was carried into the 1974 year with a 3.0L 230 hp engine in the RS and 330 hp in the RSR. The 1974 3.0 RS was the first Porsche production model to use four piston aluminum brake calipers. They were produced in limited quantities: 109 RS's and 65 RSR's. In addition, there were 4 Carrera RSR Turbo 2.1's, which were run by the factory in the prototype class as test beds that would evolve into the 935.
The next RS used the 1983 911SC as a base. 20 of the 911SC RS's were delivered in 1984 for race and rally, with a 255 hp mechanically injected engine, Turbo brakes, and aluminum and fiberglass` body parts.
In 1991, building on the 964, Porsche produced the Carrera RS, as a 1992 model. This was available in three versions, the competition model, the basic model which was geared more towards racing, and the touring model for street usage. 1916 of the basic model were produced, and came without undercoating or sound deadening material. They had manual mirrors, racing seats, manual steering, manual windows, a master kill switch, and a smaller carpet in the front trunk. 76 touring models were built, with sports seats, as well as most of the 964 standard features. 290 of the competition version were built. While the RS's were not imported into the U.S., there were 45 cars brought in for the Carrera Cup USA series, which was cancelled before it started, due to lack of sponsorship. The 45 cars, which were Carrera RS's with U.S. safety equipment, were sold as the 'Carrera Cup USA edition'. Extending this in 1993, Porsche produced the $140,000 Carrera RS 3.8 (street version) and RSR 3.8 (racing only). Here, an almost entirely new engine (new crankcase, pistons, rocker arms, valves, additional oil cooler, air filter, exhaust, intake manifolds, and air mass sensor) was developed, with the 2662 lb RS 3.8 developing 300 hp and the 2464 lb RSR 3.8 at 325 hp (compared to the stock 3034 lb 964 with 247 hp). The G-50 5 speed gearbox for both included a 40/40% limited slip. A lightened Turbo body was used, and both came with 9x18 (235/40) and 11x18 (285/35) wheels (tires). The engine's new exhaust system and air mass sensor appeared on 993's the following year. 55 RS 3.8's and 45 RSR 3.8's were produced.
11-10-2006, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by mbrouder
What about the 1988 Carrera CS?
11-10-2006, 06:23 PM
#14
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Originally Posted by Tetra84
i know that one! the CS came out late in the 3.2's lifetime and it was considered that a RS version couldn't be justified. So they came out with a lighter CS model that bridged the gap between the regular Carrera and an even lighter Carrera RS.
