rnln

After several questions and search, I sum up as... the relay for the doors switch is behind the gas gauge and is laying horizontal pointing toward the batery.
Today, I took of my driver kick panel to look behind the switch and found that it is connected to a tiny brown wire. Wondering if the wire is still in one piece conected to that relay. So my problem is either the relay is bad, or the wire is disconnected somewhere on the way to the relay. Someone please tell me...
1- How to test that relay?
2- If I pull that relay, which wire (prong number) should be connected to the switch?
Thank you uin advance.

rnln

I pulled several gauges off today to get to the relay but I didn't find what I have read.
Behind the fuel gauge, I saw 2 retangular relays standing verticle on a 3 holders sockets. Which means I have 1 relay holder without a relay. Pulling these 2 off, I saw another smaller relay behind them, toward the front. This one is also standing verticle. It has 3 prongs and the prong numbers don't look like the normal relay number (86, 87, 30, etc). I found none is laying horizontal and pointing toward the front.
Can someone please give me more opinion?
Thanks.

psychoideas

Hi rnin,
If you are talking about the door switches that make the interior lights work, my 76 does not have a relay.
what year/model is your car?

rnln

1987.
When you turn off the engine, and pull the key, your power windows will still work. After you open the door and close it, power windows won't work any more.
On my car, my power windows will always work. I tested both door switches and they are fine. I suspect that the switches are not connected to the right relay, or the relay is bad. but I don't know where to start searching.

psychoideas

Do you have a current flow diagram for it?

rnln

Current flow diagram? No I don't have it but someone on Pelican posted this (below). I can't read it, and not sure if I can read it.

rnln

updated,
I pulled all the relays off the car but my power windows are still working either with/witout key in ignition. What does that mean? It is hot wire, by passing the relay?

Droops83

Hmmm. The power window relay in your car should be the left-most (closest to driver's door) of the 3 vertical ones behind the gas gauge. The smaller one in front of those 3 is the turn signal/flasher relay. You say one is missing? Take a picture if you can. If your car is wired correctly, then obviously your windows would not work at all if the window relay were missing . . . so I wonder if it is. There should be a brown wire with a white stripe that goes to terminal 85B of the window relay, as indicated in the wiring diagram. This wire is connected to the door switches. When you switch the car off and remove the key from the ignition switch, the transistor inside the relay remains switched on so that you can still operate the windows and sunroof. When the door is opened and the switch grounds against the door pillar, this signals terminal 85B of the relay, which is supposed to switch the transistor inside the relay off so that the windows will no longer operate. If this relay remains activated, it will eventually drain your battery.

Your symptoms sound like the classic scenario of a bad door switch. if the switch is bad then the relay will never switch off, even when you open the door. You say that you checked the door switches--are you sure? They corrode very easily and can work intermittently. Pull them out and inspect them visually. Also a good way to test them is to push the switches in and out rapidly and see if the interior lights flash and the door chime sounds when they are supposed to. Also ground the wire that is connected to the switch directly and see if the windows still work. If they don't the you have found you problem (the switch). If they work, the wire is broken or something else is not right (in that case use an ohmmeter to check for continuity between the end of the brown/white wire at each door switch and the brown white wire which goes to terminal 85B of the window relay socket). The door switch issue is a very common problem on all Porsches that have this system, which means '87 and up 911 and later 944s as well.

If your window relay is still there and in the correct place, and you are not sure which one it is, or if you want to know if it is staying on when it is not supposed to, disconnect the negative cable of the battery and listen for the click of a relay shutting off. You may have to do this several times (you'll have to cycle the key on and off after you reconnect the battery to reactivate the relay) to pinpoint exactly where the relay is---again it should be the outermost one behind the gas gauge but who knows it could have been moved/messed with by someone trying to install and aftermarket alarm or something like that.

Well, hopefully I gave you some ideas, let us know what you find.

---Chris A.

rnln

This image match with what y ou described.



By now, I know the left most relay is the power windows relay. And yes, the windows are still working when I pulled that relay off.
The missing one is the windshield washer relay (right most). And my washer pump is not working.
Doors switch are good. I installed a little light near there (as a dom light) and check them almost everyday for a while. They always been working.
I also did tried to ground the switch wire to ground, just to double check.
One thing strange is that on my power window relay, I don't have all the normal relay number (85, 87, 30, 86. Instead I have 1, S, 14, 7, etc.
Do you think someone would have hot wire the power window wire and by passing the relay? If so, should rewire them back to the existing relays?

Droops83

The power window relay should be a 5 pin relay, should have terminals 85, 86, and 85b for the low side and 30 and 87 for the high side. 85b should be in the middle of the other 4 and connected to the door switches. The socket should have 5 terminals. The wire colors that go into the socket should be Red w/ black stripe for 85, brown for 86, brown w/ white for 85b and red for 30 and black for 87.

However, the fact that the windows still work w/ the relay disconnected is strange, leading me to believe that the wiring is indeed wrong. The red hot wire that comes out of fuse #1 on the fuse panel should go to terminal 30 on the relay, then the wire from 87 should go to fuse #3 then to the window switches. Sometimes people who install aftermarket alarms will tap into the fuse box to power the alarm, thus screwing up how the factory wiring is supposed to work. Get your hands on the wiring digram for the entire window circuit and see if it is correct.

---Chris A.

theiceman

Also keep in mind these cars have been around quite a while now and who knows what POs have done .Maybe somebody intentionally made it this way because they got annoyed there wife kept opening the door before the windows were up :-)

look for anything out of the ordinary.

rnln

Droops83,
Most people are saying leaving the power windows this way will drain batery, is it true? If it is, why Porsche designed it this way?

I measured mine today and found both gate 87 and 30 are hot all the time. Just like I guess, someone hot wire the window/relay.

1 question though, my relay gate labels don't look normal. They are: 87, 30, 14 (or 15), S, 1.
Anyone know how to translate?

UberXY

Ancient thread resurrection.

Chris the black wire going into fuse 1 at the top never has power and the Windows/sunroof don't work. But if I disconnect the black wire and jumper over a hot wire to the top of the fuse, everything works great. Where does the black wire come from? 86 930.

Thanks!

1986 Targa

For our M/Y 1986.

Gerry