old man neri

2300mi is only 3 days at 800mi a day. 4 if you include the fly in and then final deal making.

KC911

Respectfully, I think you're missing the point. What I was trying to do was convince you (as a first time 911 buyer) not to purchase a car "sight unseen" unless you REALLY perform due dilligence. I don't have nearly the experience Jay has with purchases, but I've looked at a few 911s myself (including pre PPI checkouts for other Rennlisters/Pelicans), and one took about a minute to eliminate (in my mind) for a Canadian buyer (thus saving him the wasted cost of a PPI). Get a good 911, and you'll be ecstatic...get a "bad" one, and it could become your WOR$T nightmare. Good luck with your search, that's a big part of learning about these cars, and part of the fun. Be patient...easier said than done, I know (I search for six months).

Keith
'88 CE coupe

jakeflyer

OK, dont drive the car home, ship it. I have used DAL for 4 car shipments and been pretty happy. The cost is reasonable and I have gotten the cars between 6 days and 2 weeks ( Dallas/L.A.). I have never gotten their insurance, but you might be wise to do so.

Were I you, I would fly to the car, inspect and drive it, then buy it (getting ALL paperwork, miles reading, bills of sales both states, power of atty etc), take it to the shipper, and fly home.

An airplane ticket is cheap compared to the car. If you fly in early you can fly out same day or the day after. I Think DAL is closed on the weekend. I have the # for them.

The power of atty is not a common document with a car buy, but if there is a problem, you can sign off for the seller---- it saved me once, which made it worth a great deal.

Rinty

Holy:

Getting back to your other question, you could retain a local attorney to hold the funds in escrow while the car is changing hands. That's what a local attorney here has been doing with several Porsche purchases he has made in the U.S. Also, if you're not paying by wire, the recipient's bank may put a hold on your bank draft for several weeks before they release funds.

Interestingly, our local independent Porsche dealer told me he has never been stung by a seller whom he has prepaid, in 20 years of buying.

You'll find your 993 is an excellent long distance car. In September, my wife and I completed a 4500 km trip in just over a week, with very little fatigue (but my car does have the comfort seat).

Enjoy your new car.

Rinty

holy911

I definitely intended to do a full PPI. This post was only about transportation and how to handle the deal logistics. Thanks though for looking out for me. Patience has never been a virtue of mine. This is really testing me since I've really only been seriously looking for 4 weeks.

Et al.
I was looking into escrow services also. Since the car will be in my name after the money has been exchanged, I'll need someone to watch and document the car's condition when it's being picked up by the transporter. This is where the escrow or other person can help me.

jake,
You had good luck was DAS? I read mixed reviews with them on this board as well as other sites. YMMV I guess.

neri,
800 m/day?! I don't think I could handle that many miles of driving, especially for that many days. I did 500 miles once and that was pushing it more than I should have. Fatigue sets in and the risk for falling asleep at the wheel increases.

Rinty,
Yeah, I've heard about good track records from previous sellers and transactions. Even the shipper at Intercity said many of the pickups he does are from sellers after the transaction has already occurred. Still, I've been burned far too many times and to trust someone I just met with the car AND the money.

I just might have to look into getting time off from family and work and pray the car (and I) lasts the trip. Even with a good PPI, there's no way any professional mechanic can tell when the next break down will occur. These are 20+ y/o cars here.

JABSEA

Maybe I'm late to the game here...

I bought a car from CA. I had a PPI done and faxed to me. I discussed the car with the fellow who did the PPI over the phone. I went down and inspected/drove the car and completed the deal. At that point, I drove it 800 miles home. In your case, if everything is good and you make the deal, why couldn't you drop it off at an auto transport company and then fly back to CA and wait for the truck to arrive.

Are you trying to do everything remotely? The cost of a round-trip flight is small compared to the long-term costs of owning the car and you do want to get it right.

Ed Hughes

Just my .02 on the 5 days....drove my 928 home 1150 miles in one day. Was gonna do it in 2, decided it was too much fun to stop and got home that night after 16 hours on the road including meals, fuel, de-watering.

holy911

Not remotely. I was planning to fly down there and watch the PPI being done. As for dropping the car off at the terminal, I've read horror stories of cars being vandalized or damaged.

Phew. You da man. 1150 miles!

Man, all this thought of transport, flying over there, for a car that might not be right. At this point, unless the seller is very cooperative and the price is right, I'll just wait for a CA car.

KC911

I've just been skimming these threads and didn't realize you were indeed going to personally inspect the car before buying...an excellent idea imo. A month isn't really a long time when you're searching for "the car of your dreams"...I can virtually guarantee that a CA car "has your name on it" . BTW, I don't know if it was you (or someone else), but I saw someone post that CA cars seemed to be several thousand $ more than elsewhere...imo, that's just flat wrong after watching these cars over the past few years. In general, due to "supply & demand", CA cars seem to be "deals" compared to other regions of the country and after you figure in the logistics, shipping costs, etc., your logical path seems obvious to me...patience, my friend, patience! BTW, you're certainly doing your homework, so please don't take my posts as a negative...I just remember how it was to want a 911 REAL BAD, and not being able to locate one right away . I hope we're helping...good luck in your search!!!

Keith
'88 CE coupe

Rinty

Holy:

I can relate to that, but with 993's you have to take your time; they're thinly spread. If you don't, you could end up paying a premium in repairs. It's a lot of work, but worth it in the end.

And you have a huge advantage in living where the supply is as good as anywhere. In Canada, there might be 1 or 2 for sale in the whole country, at any time.

Rinty

RacerX1166

+1 on seeing the car for yourself. I just walked in the door from spending 20 of the last 36 hours driving from PA to MA in order to personally inspect a diamond blue coupe. So glad I did though. The car was even better than in the pictures! I closed the deal with the owner and have a PPI scheduled with EPE for Wednesday.

I haven't gotten as far as making a decision whether to drive it back or have it transported. Just because of how ungodly busy I am right now (job interview in Germany next weekend, getting Grandma packed up to move to FL, etc.) I may have it shipped. I think if I can get it from Southern MA to Central PA for $500, I'll go with that option.

holy911

I didn't see your posts as negative at all but as helpful. I know you're trying to make sure I do it right...and that's exactly why I'm on this board. To hear all youse opinions and experiences since I'm a newbie at this. Thanks again.

Racer.
Are you the same RacerX on PelicanParts also? Cool. I'm yo911 over there.

Wow, 20 hrs! You're a marathon driver. I know that's more than my limits. I really fatigue and start getting drowsy. Driving by braille is never a good thing.

So you did a personal inspection, then waiting for the PPI on another day, and then what? Are you going to just wire the $$ to the owner and have him handle the shipping logistics, leaving the car in his possession?

You and so many others are brave and trusting. I've just been burned too many times to be so trusting. Bad eBay deals, another giving me counterfeit money, stuff stolen from me, just too many bad experiences to let a stranger keep my money and my car.

I really should wait for a local CA car. In the scheme of things, a month is the embryo stage of 911 buying. I just talked to a local guy I saw driving a 911 Cab. I stopped to chat with him briefly. I said he looked for a year and a half. Wow, now that's having the patience of Job!

BTW, this car that I'm considering has white linen/leather interior. I've not seen that combo with the black exterior before and it looks so nice. That's one of the biggest draws of this 911 for me. The exterior does look good too, but of course pictures can only tell so much.

Paul523

Holy-
I have done a couple of very similar out-of-state deals over the last few years ...most recently on a longhood 911 and before that on a vintage BMW.
Middle of the night here trying to console my infant son, so I've taken the time to list all steps re: my out-of-state 911 purchase from beginning to end. Hope this may be of some help to you or someone else in a similar circumstance.

This is essentially what I did to address similar concerns of seller integrity, transfer of title, insuring the car while awaiting shipment, arranging for shipping, etc.:

Out-Of-State PURCHASE TRANSACTION:
There may be a better way of handling all of this, I'm sure that the potential still exists for an elaborate fraudster to perpetrate a scam; but for what it's worth my dealings went as follows:

• Prior to seeing the car, establish confidence level with the identity of seller
  -see procedure ad nauseum final 1/3 of this post

• Booked roundtrip flight and rental car on only 2 days notice for cheap via kayak.com, (kayak.com will run best-fare roundtrip search for ALL airlines simultaneously). I flew to see car early in the day, flew home same evening. I had to rent a car (unfortunately for my purchase the seller was more than an hour's drive from major airport, otherwise I would've requested seller pick me up at airport arrivals curb). **stupidity warning* I did not have a professional PPI done, luckily my car is everything as it was advertised....anyway at the time I was foolish enough to trust my own 'expertise', but I did spend several hours in total inspecting, crawling over everything using a lift that the owner had in his garage, driving, we also performed compression test; I verified correct items and year/model trans/engine/chassis #'s using texts by (Rennlister MVP) Peter Zimmerman & also the paperback by James Schrager which I had brought with me on the plane.

• Seller and I struck a deal, I handed the owner a couple $ hundred in cash as a deposit in exchange for written receipt...before leaving I obtained the seller's bank name and account # to do a wire transfer next day.......btw on initial receipt make sure to specify inclusion of complete toolkit + jack+ owner's manual + maintenance logbook + whatever else/ all records.

• Before departing the seller's property, I got my insurance agent live on the phone; advised my agent that I had bought the car & I also advised my agent of pending shipping arrangements to make sure the car was fully covered while awaiting shipment. (seller agreed to also keep their insurance in place until I had formally transferred title a few days later).

• My insurance agent and I had several days earlier/ previously agreed that based on this prospective car's purported excellent condition & published Kelly Blue Book 'high retail' value that my comp/collision coverage from that point forward would be at agreed value of $XX,XXX. Also per prior instructions from my insurance agent, while I was still standing in the seller's garage I took a dozen digital photos of the car with that day's newspaper front page held by the seller in the photos-- seriously my insurance lady insisted that we did this). Insurance company wants pics of all body panels + engine + interior + VIN plate.... Emailed the pics to my agent when I returned home.

• After flying home, the next business day I went into my bank and plopped down at the desk of my bank manager as they phoned seller's bank to verify my porsche seller's account # and status with a live manager at the seller's bank,,,, For a $20 fee my bank wired the remaining funds to seller. By prior agreement once the seller confirmed his bank's receipt of my wire transfer, the seller FedEx'd the vehicle title to my residence for next day delivery. (seller used credit union so it took a couple of hours for seller to confirm the wire transfer).

• FedEx delivered the Porsche vehicle title to my residence the next day.

• I personally phoned Intercity & booked the vehicle transport.
  *** interesting note: my shipping quote from Intercity was >20% LESS when I called and worked out the shipping details with a live person from Intercity on the phone ... I had also gone to Intercity Transport website and submitted quote request form-- which came back via email at $200 or so HIGHER than my phone quote. My shipping was from New England to Ohio: the quote I received via email through Intercity's website was around $950.
  Bottom line via phone inquiry was only $700., including primary insurance coverage by Intercity Transport (my personal vehicle insurer did not need to get involved with coverage for any damages incurred during shipment once the Porsche had left the seller's garage; Intercity covers all damage/theft, zero-deductible, during shipping door-to-door).
  
  VERY good folks to deal with at Intercity. These guys at Intercity "GET IT". They know exactly how extremely SENSITIVE we buyers of our dream P-car are apt to be concerning every aspect of the shipping process.
  
  > I don't recall the insurance details, but I do recall a ZERO deductible for any damage or theft, that Intercity readily emailed me a copy of their insurance binder and the coverage was sufficiently robust regarding shipping damage/ vehicle theft during transport that I was satisfied. My personal insurance would not have to assume any risk, as the Intercity coverage was up to $1 million and was primary (unlike what I have read about some of the less-expensive, non-enclosed vehicle transport operators which apparently advertise terrific low prices and 'fully insured', but the fine print specifies that the vehicle owner's insurance must pick up the first $XX of damages + deductible.. a nightmare if something actually happened while in transit.
  

SHIPPING ARRANGEMENTS:-
DEFINITELY use Intercity Transport if you ultimately choose to have the car shipped. The way I handled it was (assuming your PPI checks out okay), ask the seller if --as a final consideration in closing the sale-- he'll do the final 'small favor' of babysitting the car, including letting the car stay in his enclosed, secure garage-- until the scheduled Intercity transporter arrives to collect the vehicle. When & if you reach the stage of actually purchasing the car out of state, make sure that you obtain the seller's cellphone , home and/or work phone #'s and advise the seller that you'll be furnishing these phone #'s to the Intercity Transport driver to contact the seller on the Day Before/ Day Of pick-up.

From my couple of experiences using Intercity, you'll be looking at a 2 - 3 week time frame from the day you book the transport with Intercity to the day the vehicle is picked up in Illinois. Then you're probably looking at a week or more to arrive in Calif....these guys are good, they will tuck your car in the deepest part of the enclosure to eliminate/minimize the need to shuffle your vehicle on and off the loading deck.

The Intercity driver will call the seller to verify vehicle location/ truck access to driveway when the driver is approx. 12-18 hours from the pick-up location. The driver will call the seller again when they are abt 2 hours away from the vehicle pick-up location to verify that everything is ready.

(I was v lucky - my seller was cordial enough to be willing to return home from his office during an afternoon on short notice per INtercity driver's two-hour call... so that my seller could personally hand over the 911 keys to the Intercity driver and observe loading of the car).

Jay H is accurate in previous post above-- Intercity driver will mark everything prior to loading the car onto the transporter truck. They literally record every speck of dirt on the car prior to loading the car. For instance, although my 911 body and paint are in what I consider fine shape, my bill of lading sheet from Intercity had probably 20 -25 notations just about the cosmetic blemishes alone-- everything from a sesame-seed sized bubble on my chrome window trim, to a scratch at base of my windshield to the ever-so-slightly misaligned horn grille on passenger side. Extremely thorough, extremely easy to deal with, but these Intercity folks leave nothing to chance.




VERIFYING INFO RE: SELLER/ out of state:
GOOGLE the heck out of the name of your seller. It is diabolical how much information can be garnered via the web + Google about someone just on the basis of name/ city of residence/ phone/email. Proceed as follows:

During your next phone or email commx with the seller you should obtain the seller's address on the basis of your needing to plan your PPI/flight to view the car. (or at a minimum obtain the seller's first and last name and specific town that they live in-- some folks including myself for security reasons don't like to give out our actual street address until the last possible moment before a buyer is to arrive for a viewing appointment-- when we know that a prospective buyer is legitimate).

Figure out via the web what county in Illinois the seller's residence is located in. Most county auditors around the country now include full residential property information, available in an instant on dedicated Auditor's websites. Try to locate his county's Auditor website; then you can type in his last name and city/town and .......if he owns a house, the site will indicate how long they've owned the house, etc. The auditor's website will usually provide the person's actual street address, which, as you're most likely aware, you can then punch in to Google.Maps for a satellite-photo-view of the actual property where you will be viewing the car.

When you fly in to supervise the PPI, obviously you will see firsthand whether the seller's information matches up with whatever advance info you've acquired and you can proceed with transaction with much greater degree of confidence.

IF the property search method doesn't yield results, next conversation casually ask the seller if he drove the car to the office as a daily driver much? ....who he works with/ works for? Google his name and his company's name. If he's an attorney or consultant or business owner it will be easy to find verifiable info.

Google the seller's phone number in simple (123)456-7890 and 123-456-7890 formats. If search yields a match, you never know it may link to one or more of the same person's previous transactions/ whether they are also selling Zango juice or mattresses or if they are a serial porsche flipper or vehicle salvage/rebuilder; If nothing worrisome emerges, at least it may show some established status if the phone # is used in some legitimate enterprise.

(Of course a sophisticated internet fraud artist could purposely create bogus online references, but I figure that spending 20 minutes at the keyboard to maybe get a few morsels of information about a car's seller is a good starting point.)

Google the seller's email address. same reasons as above.

Ask if he's been a member of his local Porsche Club of America chapter? If so, google it. You'd be surprised how an obscure reference from a regional club chapter .pdf newsletter and/or other similar Porsche registries from 2003 or 2005 or whenever will still pop up as a full .pdf file/link on Google search-results page. Just enter the seller's first name last name and the words 'porsche' and 'Illinois' or similar.

_________________________________

Holy911-

You'll probably get quoted $1.5- $2K to ship the car that kind of distance from IL-CA. I say Hell yes you should drive. Consider that driving 2100 miles /at 25mpg = 84 gallons @ $3.25/gallon = $275. gasoline for the entire trip.

So the question becomes: is it worth it to "pay yourself" $1500. to drive back to CA?

The only reason I had my 911 shipped from New England to Ohio was because it was January when I purchased the car. Ice/snow & tons of road salt the whole trip would have killed me.

If you were to buy this car in very near future....taking Interstate 70 through Denver, etc...you still have a week of pretty much problem-free clear roads. Or better yet, cruise a more southern route & avoid altogether the increasing possibility of a Rocky Mtn snowstorm through Colorado/Utah anytime after about mid Oct..

holy911

Paul523,

WOW, WOW! Thanks a bunch for this info. Now this really helps me. I've just read your post about 3 times and still get more info each time. You could write your own book called "How To Buy A 911 Across the Country". I'd be first in line to buy it.

I really am tempted to drive the car back to CA. But again, fatigue, time from family and work, possibility of the car breaking down on a remote road miles from anywhere..just too much for me. Otherwise, fall is a great time of year to be driving with the roof off.

So, Google is my friend.

RacerX1166

Yep, there's only one of me

It was 20 hours round trip so there was a bit of a break in driving my Lexus to drive the Porsche. It was so worthwhile though. This is a big purchase for most of us and spending a few hundred extra $ to prevent a major mistake is so worth it. I'd double that if you're looking at a Linen interior car since pics don't always tell the whole story.

So, my plan is that the owner will take the car for the PPI, I'll wire the funds to his account, and then we will discuss how it gets back to PA. I'm on the fence whether to ship or drive at this point. It depends on how much I can have it shipped for. The paint is in such great condition with so few stone chips, I hate to risk messing it up driving it 8 hours to get it home.

As far as trust goes, meeting the owner goes a long way. Granted there are folks who can snow you but a face to face helps the trust factor a lot. If I had more time in MA, I would have hung out with the guy I bought the car from for the rest of the day since he was a pretty interesting guy.

Best of luck on making your decision. Patience is everything. I'm lucky I found a car I really like in only a few months of looking.