Its been awhile...

[slfan]

Hello Peter Zimmermann,

You mentioned:

"My biggest fear is that your engine has been run on Castrol, and the "tick" that you hear has nothing to do with broken studs, but, instead, could be failing (pitted) camshafts and worn rocker arms."

Can you or somebody please explain if there is a problem or risk using Castrol mineral oil in a 1987 Carrera? Thank you.

Regards,
SLFan

[flatsixnut]

Originally Posted by theiceman

..but if the studs are broke .. then their broke .. I find it hard to belive a mech could say 3 ae broke without looking. in fact Michael should have 3 pieces of stud and nut in his hand by now if they are broken ..

I have not been down to the shop. All my info came over the phone via speaker with the owner and the wrench. I will make it down there soon...remember, I am working ALOT.

I do not need a second opinion...their's is the best in my area. I trust them. This is the shop formally known as Dave White Racing. The first options I was given is for a proper fix...not a shortcut fix. I wanted to know what the complkete proper way to do this would be. I knew Pete and others would chime in here to give other options. If I can not afford a complete top end right now...then it is nice to know what my options are. I do not want to sell the car, but i am not going to let it just sit in my garage for a year.

[g-50cab]

Vortex is good - but they are not known for being inexpensive (quite the contrary) Joe Shukys takes his car to Mickey at European Performance - I take my car to Joe Vetter at Germantech. I'd call around if I was you - and see if you can find someone to just replace the studs and reseal the engine if that's all you can afford right now. If money is an issue then I would definitely explore other options. Going to Vortex is like shopping at Neiman Marcus for kids school clothes.

[Brett San Diego]

Originally Posted by flatsixnut

The first options I was given is for a proper fix...not a shortcut fix. I wanted to know what the complkete proper way to do this would be. I knew Pete and others would chime in here to give other options. If I can not afford a complete top end right now...then it is nice to know what my options are. I do not want to sell the car, but i am not going to let it just sit in my garage for a year.

Well, if you don't have excessive oil consumption, and you have good compression and leak down, then you probably don't need valves and valve guide replacement, and you don't really need the complete top end job. It would not be incomplete or improper to reassemble as is if the parts don't need replacement. Given that the SC engine, beyond the head studs, has shown to be pretty durable and to go for a long time (over 200,000 miles) before top ends are really necessary, I think you should strongly consider just doing the studs and reassembling as Pete mentions. It's a gamble, maybe, but probably a good bet that the top end will be good for a long time.

On the other hand, if you're paying for all the labor, you will be paying twice for tearing down the top end (now and for when a full valve job is needed later on). But, it will be spread out over more time, and you have to consider how long you intend to keep the car. The original top end may last through your ownership, and you won't have to pay again.

Brett

[flatsixnut]

Originally Posted by g-50cab

Vortex is good - but they are not known for being inexpensive (quite the contrary) Joe Shukys takes his car to Mickey at European Performance - I take my car to Joe Vetter at Germantech. I'd call around if I was you - and see if you can find someone to just replace the studs and reseal the engine if that's all you can afford right now. If money is an issue then I would definitely explore other options. Going to Vortex is like shopping at Neiman Marcus for kids school clothes.

Jeremy,
I think the prices have come down since Bob left. I do not think I need a second or third tear down of my car and more money spent on finding out what is wrong, but a second price estimate is definitely worthy if I can save alot.

I'll give the other shop a ring. I remember seeing a shop on US 19 North of Tarpon Springs if I am not mistaken...wonder who they are?

[Daniel Dudley]

Originally Posted by slfan

Hello Peter Zimmermann,

You mentioned:

"My biggest fear is that your engine has been run on Castrol, and the "tick" that you hear has nothing to do with broken studs, but, instead, could be failing (pitted) camshafts and worn rocker arms."

Can you or somebody please explain if there is a problem or risk using Castrol mineral oil in a 1987 Carrera? Thank you.

Regards,
SLFan

Sent you a PM. As usual, Pete is hitting the mark with this comment. I am in the process of replacing the cams on my SC as we speak due to pitting. Fortunately, I got a good deal on the car, and it is clean as a whistle inside, has no leaks or oil consumption, with excellent compression. A smart 911 guy like Pete is doing the technical stuff, and I am going for a mild upgrade, as opposed to stock cam replacements.

Oddly enough of the cars I looked at before I purchased this car, several had pitted cams on otherwise sound engines. A lot of people are out of the loop on the new oil formulation issues, even some pretty good techs.

I think there is a rash of this going on right now. It is real easy to put the cam covers back on and just sell the car to the next taker. I couldn't do that without disclosure, but many will. My intention is to do it right, do it once, and move on.

Like others here, I also need to know my limits. I started out with a friend, and I am finishing with a real 911 specialist. I get a nice upgrade, Cams and tensioners, and even if I were forced to sell at a loss, the car is paid for, and I will get back more than the cost of this repair.

Hope everything works out for you Flatsixnut. I always was a sucker for a white hardtop.

[Peter Zimmermann]

Originally Posted by slfan

Hello Peter Zimmermann,

You mentioned:

"My biggest fear is that your engine has been run on Castrol, and the "tick" that you hear has nothing to do with broken studs, but, instead, could be failing (pitted) camshafts and worn rocker arms."

Can you or somebody please explain if there is a problem or risk using Castrol mineral oil in a 1987 Carrera? Thank you.

Regards,
SLFan

Originally Posted by Daniel Dudley

Sent you a PM. As usual, Pete is hitting the mark with this comment. I am in the process of replacing the cams on my SC as we speak due to pitting. Fortunately, I got a good deal on the car, and it is clean as a whistle inside, has no leaks or oil consumption, with excellent compression. A smart 911 guy like Pete is doing the technical stuff, and I am going for a mild upgrade, as opposed to stock cam replacements.

Oddly enough of the cars I looked at before I purchased this car, several had pitted cams on otherwise sound engines. A lot of people are out of the loop on the new oil formulation issues, even some pretty good techs.

I think there is a rash of this going on right now. It is real easy to put the cam covers back on and just sell the car to the next taker. I couldn't do that without disclosure, but many will. My intention is to do it right, do it once, and move on.

Like others here, I also need to know my limits. I started out with a friend, and I am finishing with a real 911 specialist. I get a nice upgrade, Cams and tensioners, and even if I were forced to sell at a loss, the car is paid for, and I will get back more than the cost of this repair.

Hope everything works out for you Flatsixnut. I always was a sucker for a white hardtop.

Daniel - +1. My personal '82 was discovered to have badly pitted cams at 192K miles, but no consumption, stud or compression issues. I replaced the cams, installed Carrera Tensioners (which is why I opened the car in the 1st place), and have since put about 14K trouble-free miles on the car.

Michael - I have no first-hand knowledge of cam problems occurring with Valvoline, which was the recommended oil at my shop for the handful of customers who didn't want to use Kendall. I still wish that you would pull off the lower covers, your symptom just doesn't equate to broken studs.

SLFan - I've seen many cases where component life-expectancy was shortened because of (1) inferior oil, or (2) extending change intervals further that what might be reasonable for a particular oil. The bulk of oil-related problems that I've seen fall into the Castrol/Pennzoil category. If you use either oil, but change it every 1500-2000 miles, you should be OK. If you don't change it for 5000-7500 miles you might be in for a problem. Further advice is based on; (1) how many miles are on your car?, and (2) how far back in the car's history has Castrol been used?

[flatsixnut]

Originally Posted by Peter Zimmermann

Michael - I have no first-hand knowledge of cam problems occurring with Valvoline, which was the recommended oil at my shop for the handful of customers who didn't want to use Kendall. I still wish that you would pull off the lower covers, your symptom just doesn't equate to broken studs.

Pete, when I get down to the shop I will have a better idea of what was looked at. I am assuming that all covers were taken off. How else would they be able to tell me that I had broken head studs? I had a small list of things I wanted them to take a look at. Perhaps when I stated that it was a ticking noise I may have down-played the sound a bit. It is definitely louder than a tick and alot closer to the sound you described. It also got louder and more pronounced the harder you put you foot into it. not wanting to do anymore damage...I did not want drive the car anymore until I had it looked at.

I will try and get down to the shop early this week and get a full write up on what was found. I will definitely share what their findings were so we can have a better idea of what I am in for.

Thanks all.

[g-50cab]

I don't have a dog in this fight - just throwing alternatives out there.

What would be the difference in selling your motor and just buying a replacement 3,0 with no "known" issues??

[Peter Zimmermann]

Originally Posted by g-50cab

What would be the difference in selling your motor and just buying a replacement 3,0 with no "known" issues??

That might be viable in some cases, but Michael's car is a known, with properly functioning CIS, good starting/running characteristics, plus low mileage. Why risk a can of worms by putting an unknown in the car? I think, as available 915s get worse and worse, the same will hold true for SC and earlier engines. Of course, there is always a chance of finding a freshly, correctly, repaired engine that was just recovered from a wreck, but it's also possible to find a needle in a haystack.

Yes, it can be an alternative solution, but I think that giving up a low mileage engine original to a very nice car is just not the right thing to do.

[whalebird]

+1 Pete. flatsix, get a second opinion. As pete suggests, pull the lower valve covers and look. Also check that the rocker shafts are properly inserted and not "walking" out. I have seen similar cars with broken studs that gave NO noise at all when caught early. If the studs have been broken for a while, you could create head/cylinder leakage that burns the heads when hot combustion is released through the cylinder/head leak. Even then it would sound like what Pete describes.
If you here hooves ... don't look for zebras.

[flatsixnut]

In no way am I thinking about switching motors. I was at one time, but that was only for a larger litre engine. I like the idea that I have an all origanal car, and have no issues with my CIS. I am however curious as to why I need a second opinion on the work that needs to be done. I will get other estimates from reliable shops to do the work, but as far as what is wrong with the car I feel very comfortable that Vortex did a thorough look as I asked them to do. Plus if they thought they would be doing the work...why would they over look something that they could make money on? I will know more when I can actually get down there and pick up my car along with having the written report on whats wrong and the written estimate of the work to be done.

I have not completely nixed the idea of pulling the motor myself. The biggest problem I have with that is the amount of time it would take me to do it, plus the thought of leaving my car outside while the engine is apart inside the garage. I can just imagine how great it feels to be driving a car that you yourself have rebuilt a motor for. Huge kudos to those that have done it!

[theiceman]

Michael do you have a basement ?

if so then take your engine down there . hire a couple of movers if you need to . Then leave your car in the garage and work on your engine on your own time in comfort.

There are always alternatives and I think selling should be the very last. If your broken studs are all on one side then I think this is VERY dooable by yourself.

The only reason for a second opinion would be to see if soemone could do it for cheaper in your case.

[flatsixnut]

@ Iceman...I did not think anyone in Florida has a basement.
I will get a second opinion on the cost of repair for sure.

[theiceman]

oh crap i didn't even notice ... well you would at least have an indoor swimming pool !!!