Victory Motorcars / my view - Page 3

Trader220 · 11-24-2009, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLEW911

How did they find out your identity? Did PP or Rennlist give up this information?
Thanks for the information.

They didnt, they sent it via the email function on the board. They dont know my personal info

Marc Gelefsky · 11-24-2009, 04:00 PM

A few years ago I sold a 90 C2 to Victory, Frankly I got what I felt was a decent price for it, money was wired right into my account. The only creepy thing was the wreck of a car hauler that was sent to pick up the car. It was an open hauler that could carry 2 cars and pulled by a Pickup truck.

Brads911sc · 11-24-2009, 11:53 PM

If you flew to Texas, had a good PPI done at Protechnik... why did you buy a car that was mis-represented? I wouldnt buy a car that was not as advsertised... If you didnt fly to texas, drive it, and have a PPI done at a place that is good... then how can you possibly complain? Dont mean to be harsh... I have no axe to grind and wouldnt care if VMC went out of business tomorrow... but sounds like alot of buyers want it both ways to me...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott C

It is quite simple. Where there's smoke, there's fire. The guy uses strong arm tactics when people complain about the car being mis-represented. Example? When people post their experiences on public forums and then receive letters from VMC's attorneys.

Mis-represented? Stating the car is flawless and a body/paint guy will find no flaws with it. Then, upon inspection by the buyer, obvious impact damage is found. How is that not mis-representation?

If you don't mind giving the guy your hard earned money and being yelled at when trying to negotiate, then go ahead and give him your money.

Scott C · 11-25-2009, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brads911sc

If you flew to Texas, had a good PPI done at Protechnik... why did you buy a car that was mis-represented? I wouldnt buy a car that was not as advsertised... If you didnt fly to texas, drive it, and have a PPI done at a place that is good... then how can you possibly complain? Dont mean to be harsh... I have no axe to grind and wouldnt care if VMC went out of business tomorrow... but sounds like alot of buyers want it both ways to me...

Luckily I live in TX so the commute wasn't an issue. PPI was done (under much push-back by Robert). My issue is with the ensuing discussion that occurred once the faults were surfaced. Trying to negotiate with somebody who begins screaming when asked a few questions is tough to do.

Ultimately, things were worked out via price movement but the buying experience was terrible. I got lucky in that the car was solid otherwise and bought it, however, it could have been a huge waste of time if we couldn't reach agreement (after much screaming).

The best advice I can offer is to be prepared for a very involved, arduous buying process with Robert. He will try to highly accentuate the positive while addressing the negative with abusive, aggressive tactics. Some call it salesmanship, others call it misrepresentation. Being in sales myself, I would classify it as misrepresentation. Oh yeah, and don't get me started on the Bait & Switch he pulls with his inventory.

In the end, I expect a very fairly represented car, warts and all so they can decide to expend effort in travel and diligence. I can deal with it. I expect most people here want the same.

Fool me once, shame on me..... There won't be a second time.

amjf088 · 11-25-2009, 10:01 AM

If you flew to Texas, had a PPI done, paid premium because of low mileage/service records and then found that they were falsified, would you feel OK about it? You see, that's the rub...

Sure, you might argue that if the PPI is good, who cares about mileage etc. However, that would count in my book and for that reason, I will never deal with anyone who is not being honest with me, whether dealer or private sale. I think that it where the difference lies between my view and the view that VMC is just another source for cars and a good PPI is all you need.

harmonyroadporsche · 11-28-2009, 10:32 AM

I didn't expect this topic would catch my eye for a first post :-)

I've had the displeasure of seeing two VMC specials in my shop. Both were Ebay purchases made by owners with stars in their eyes that were told they were getting prime cosmetic and mechanical specimens. Both cars were purchased for rather high prices as the owners thought hey were getting great cars and in both cases they didn't do PPI (their fault entirely) and instead went on the word of the VMC staffers they dealt with.

The second and most recent car was a cosmetically gorgeous mid 80s 911 Cab, but a mechanical mess. Al the oil lines hard as rock, with oil pouring through a failed case half seal. On top of that it had cold start and electrical issues. If the car had one or two little mechanical issues I'd say the owner got a good deal. Instead he's now in for some pricey work to reseal the case, replace oil lines, diagnose and fix electrical and cold start issues and potentially more.

Sending the car back to VMC is a very difficult proposition as it had already been imported. And when I told the owner to immediately report all of these issues to VMC he was told that the car was "in perfect mechanical condition" when it was shipped and that they wouldn't take the car back and refund his money. When pushed much harder he was told that at most he'd get 5K back.. 5K is a start but doesn't come close to the work he now has to pay for.

I agree that the buyer must take a good portion of the blame if they don't go down in person and do a PPI. But the in this case the seller sold a pile of dung priced and polished like a diamond. That's dishonest to the extreme and unacceptable. Now I tell anyone who will listen to steer clear of these thieves.

J

theiceman · 11-29-2009, 10:14 PM

.... and there you have it ...... once again .... :-)

PS where is harmony Road Porsche ?

Coincidentally we have a Harmony Road Just the other side of Toronto ..

harmonyroadporsche · 11-30-2009, 02:05 AM

Thinking back, that car had a quite a few other issues I didn't even mention.. It was a beautifully polished turd...

It's on Harmony Road, deep in the heart of farm country north of Oshawa. So you hit the nail on the head Iceman :-)

theiceman · 11-30-2009, 10:50 AM

Hey that's great .. at least I know of another spot now if I break down on the way to Mosport .. :-)

You should post on the Canadian Forum .. very active in TO and surrounding area.

harmonyroadporsche · 11-30-2009, 01:43 PM

That's impossible...as we all know Porsche's never break down :-) We'd love to see you and your wheels at our shop.

I'll be sure to post to the Canadian forum.

J

theiceman · 11-30-2009, 08:02 PM

hmm good point had it 5 years and the only engine damage was self inflicted ..

dshepp806 · 11-30-2009, 09:39 PM

yes,.."beautully polished turds"...couldn't have said it better myself....

..you get what you deserve..........?

PPI,.....PPI,....PPI,....forget the "screaming"///////WTF?

Best,

11-24-2009, 04:00 PM	#32
Marc Gelefsky Super Moderator Lifetime Rennlist Member Join Date: May 1998 Location: Northern New Jersey Posts: 9,710	A few years ago I sold a 90 C2 to Victory, Frankly I got what I felt was a decent price for it, money was wired right into my account. The only creepy thing was the wreck of a car hauler that was sent to pick up the car. It was an open hauler that could carry 2 cars and pulled by a Pickup truck. __________________ Marc Gelefsky 02 996 Coupe 6 Speed Aero 86 911 Carrera Targa - Guards Red 00 Saab 9-5 Aero Wagon - Winter Beater, Dog & Kid Hauler 04 Audi Allroad 2.7T 6 Speed - Wife's Ride Gone - 88 951, 87 951, 86 944na, 85.5 944na x2, 01 Boxster S

11-25-2009, 10:01 AM	#35
amjf088 Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,809	If you flew to Texas, had a PPI done, paid premium because of low mileage/service records and then found that they were falsified, would you feel OK about it? You see, that's the rub... Sure, you might argue that if the PPI is good, who cares about mileage etc. However, that would count in my book and for that reason, I will never deal with anyone who is not being honest with me, whether dealer or private sale. I think that it where the difference lies between my view and the view that VMC is just another source for cars and a good PPI is all you need. __________________ 1985 911 Carrera: The fun car 1987 944 S: The project car 2002 Subaru WRX: The daily car Visit My P-Car Projects!

11-29-2009, 10:14 PM	#37
theiceman Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Cambridge Ontario Posts: 9,903	.... and there you have it ...... once again .... :-) PS where is harmony Road Porsche ? Coincidentally we have a Harmony Road Just the other side of Toronto .. __________________ 78 SC Targa 76 XS360 95 Audi 90 Sport 09 Maxima Gone but not forgotten 87 944S " I'm not very smart but I know how to google "

11-30-2009, 10:50 AM	#39
theiceman Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Cambridge Ontario Posts: 9,903	Hey that's great .. at least I know of another spot now if I break down on the way to Mosport .. :-) You should post on the Canadian Forum .. very active in TO and surrounding area. __________________ 78 SC Targa 76 XS360 95 Audi 90 Sport 09 Maxima Gone but not forgotten 87 944S " I'm not very smart but I know how to google "

11-30-2009, 08:02 PM	#41
theiceman Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Cambridge Ontario Posts: 9,903	hmm good point had it 5 years and the only engine damage was self inflicted .. __________________ 78 SC Targa 76 XS360 95 Audi 90 Sport 09 Maxima Gone but not forgotten 87 944S " I'm not very smart but I know how to google "

11-28-2009, 10:32 AM	#36
harmonyroadporsche User Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 13	I didn't expect this topic would catch my eye for a first post :-) I've had the displeasure of seeing two VMC specials in my shop. Both were Ebay purchases made by owners with stars in their eyes that were told they were getting prime cosmetic and mechanical specimens. Both cars were purchased for rather high prices as the owners thought hey were getting great cars and in both cases they didn't do PPI (their fault entirely) and instead went on the word of the VMC staffers they dealt with. The second and most recent car was a cosmetically gorgeous mid 80s 911 Cab, but a mechanical mess. Al the oil lines hard as rock, with oil pouring through a failed case half seal. On top of that it had cold start and electrical issues. If the car had one or two little mechanical issues I'd say the owner got a good deal. Instead he's now in for some pricey work to reseal the case, replace oil lines, diagnose and fix electrical and cold start issues and potentially more. Sending the car back to VMC is a very difficult proposition as it had already been imported. And when I told the owner to immediately report all of these issues to VMC he was told that the car was "in perfect mechanical condition" when it was shipped and that they wouldn't take the car back and refund his money. When pushed much harder he was told that at most he'd get 5K back.. 5K is a start but doesn't come close to the work he now has to pay for. I agree that the buyer must take a good portion of the blame if they don't go down in person and do a PPI. But the in this case the seller sold a pile of dung priced and polished like a diamond. That's dishonest to the extreme and unacceptable. Now I tell anyone who will listen to steer clear of these thieves. J

11-30-2009, 02:05 AM	#38
harmonyroadporsche User Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 13	Thinking back, that car had a quite a few other issues I didn't even mention.. It was a beautifully polished turd... It's on Harmony Road, deep in the heart of farm country north of Oshawa. So you hit the nail on the head Iceman :-)

11-30-2009, 01:43 PM	#40
harmonyroadporsche User Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 13	That's impossible...as we all know Porsche's never break down :-) We'd love to see you and your wheels at our shop. I'll be sure to post to the Canadian forum. J

11-30-2009, 09:39 PM	#42
dshepp806 Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Middle GA. Posts: 1,014	yes,.."beautully polished turds"...couldn't have said it better myself.... ..you get what you deserve..........? PPI,.....PPI,....PPI,....forget the "screaming"///////WTF? Best, __________________ Recording Engineer/Producer Designer of Fine Recording Studios and Tube Amps Music-lovin' RUSH FREAK!!!!!!! 1989 911 Carrera, Silver Anniversary Edition