kraftykid

Hi all,

Please forgive me if this topic is somewhere in the archives. I've spent the morning trying to find a thread, but can only find ones comparing the 964 to the 993.

I am currently about to pull the trigger on a black/black '86 coupe, or a '90 white/black MT coupe. I was in the market for something newer but test drove an '86 and was sold by the driving dynamics. Both are from the same company that works to beautiful restore and rebuild these classic Porsches--exterior paint, trims, engine and trans restoration (rings, seals, etc), new windshields and windows, etc. Prices are comparable at around $23k. Both cars also come with a limited warranty from this restoration company.

I did not have time to test drive the 964, but am aware that it has a different "feel" to it via G50 trans, different suspension, more power, etc.

I will be driving either car as my DD...but my commute to and from work is very short--about 5 miles. I am wondering if you all could help shed some light on which car would be "better." Some of the criteria I am weighing are:
- comfort features (lack of power steering in the '86, better air ventilation of the 964, etc)
- reliability (head gasket and oil leakage issues of the 964...is the 911 much more reliable? will the 964 be a maintenance headache?)
- safety (964 with airbags vs the 911 without...how concerned should I be about a car without airbags?)

I appreciate any thoughts here...I plan on buying one of these two cars by the end of the week. I have been in the turbo Volvo scene for a while, and am switching gears at this point in my life. I test drove some newer cars (M3, G35, S2000, etc) but nothing put a smile on my face like the 911 did.

Thanks all.

ivangene

welcome to the board....

I just came out of a 996 and into an 86'
Many people shake thier head and wonder what I was thinking, some understand. I DD the P-car and the only advice I have for that one is find a longer way to get to work. Motors dont like short jaunts and will tend to collect water inside.
airbags are not an issue for me, I never used them in the 99' anyhow
you owe it to yourself to drive the 964 as I (or others) cannot tell what will make YOU happy - for me the 86' would be a winner because its a much better build date in the series (90' has a differant reputation IMO)
any car can be a maintenance "headache" esp if you dont like doing it so I cant answer that based on not knowing both cars, but the 86' is one of the best years - that said it still needs plenty of taking care of.
I have not driven/owned a 90' so I cant speak for it, but I love my 86'


so aside from driving to work, what do you plan to do with your new to you Porsche... maybe that will help us give you some pointers

Ed Hughes

If it were me, and going to be a DD, I'd make time to drive a 964, since you are the one living with the car. Our opinions would probably not mean much to you, as everyone is different.

I like a very firm, some may say bone-jarring, ride. Others want a bit more compliance. It all comes down to personal taste.

A 5 minute commute would lend itself better to a Honda or Toyota. You will destroy the engine from the inside out with 5 minute commutes.

rgrimm

I think they are both great cars. All of the variations have their "issues." The 3.2s seem to have issues with valve guide wear. Others say the 964 is the best of the "classic" 911s. A record of work done and inspection is everything...

You don't say where you are. But the 964s really were one of the first 911s with a decent air conditioning system. Interesting...I talked with a guy this weekend who said his wife couldn't wait for him to get rid of his Porsche--an 86 Targa at the time. Now that he has his 964, his wife loves the car and repeatedly tells him he can never sell it.

Ed Hughes

Those are very broad statements, and I question them both. The valve guide issue is blown way out of proportion. As a percentage, very few 3.2's had the issue. Yet, it seems to be the shingle out front in some people's minds.

I've yet to hear anyone, owners included, state the the 964 is the "best of the classics". Is it an improvement with coil over suspension, better A/C, easier steering? Yes, but that is exactly why many feel they lost the "feel".

Again, it is personal preference in what one wants.

Uber 911

I've had a 964 and 993, what do I own now? an 88 3.2. Its simpler underneath, no ABS, no power steering, no complex electrics and a bomb proof engine.

Quote

lack of power steering in the '86 = Builds up your biceps
better air ventilation of the 964, etc = Open the windows
head gasket and oil leakage issues of the 964 = Oil leeks, yes and a pain to chance down
is the 911 much more reliable = Yes, its simpler
will the 964 be a maintenance headache = More costly, more time consuming

964 tips the scales at 1375kg C2 and 1475kg C4
3.2 911 is a nimble 1210kg

A 964 only has 19bhp more but carry's and extra 165-240kg. Thats 363-529lbs(US)

I've also found the 3.2 911 a more compliant ride and better grip because its runs 16" rims with a taller profile tire.

ricster

get the 86. I own one and to me its the best looking with a bomb proof engine as another stated

kraftykid

Thanks for the responses so far.

I am currently in a pretty bone-jarring ride...looking for a little bit more compliance while not sacrificing driving dynamics. Even the '86 911 was more cushy than what I ride currently.

It's more like a 10-20 minute commute, depending on traffic. (~5 mile commute through downtown Los Angeles.)

Interesting comment about the A/C system of the 911 actually...my girlfriend is one of those people that gets fussy real quick when it gets hot. Unfortunately, at this point, that may be something that I have to consider. I'm not sure which--Porsche or girlfriend--will be the longer term investment, however.

So to recap so far, it sounds like the maintenance costs of the 964 will only slightly outweigh those of the 911? I'm prepared to spend what I need to to keep this car in pristine condition. All the $ I used to spend on modifying cars, I plan to spend on keeping in super running condition. Hopefully I don't get bitten too hard by the mod bug on the Porsches.

I will be test driving the 964 sometime this week.

kraftykid

Thanks for the response

I will plan on taking a couple extra laps around the block before pulling into work...

As far as plans for my Porsche, I plan on keeping it all as stock as possible. I've modified both of my last couple cars, and part of me wishes that I just kept it all as stock/OEM as possible. If I get the '86, the only change that I may seek to make is to install a rear duck tail spoiler...maybe.

ivangene

ofishbein

I have the same issue in that I moved and now have a 2 mile commute to work. When I had to put down my old DD, I looked at it objectively and bought a Prius, figuring it's made to start and stop frequently anyway.

I'd take the '86 because it was well into the series and most of the bugs were worked out by then. 1990 was the start of the new series and are known for several problems (flywheel, distributor belt, RMS leaks). Some of these may have been fixed by a PO, but it would still be in the back of my mind.

Baby

Why are short trips so bad for air cooled motors as opposed to water cooled motors? As a rule do water cooled motors get up to operating temperature sooner than air cooled motors?

Ed Hughes

Well, first of all, they are still making new water-cooled motors, so who cares about them?
Secondly, they don't make our cars any more, and they are expensive to rebuild, so we all should be conscientious custodians.

Short trips are hard on all engines, but again, on new cars, they are probably newer and the engines are relatively cheap to fix. And most people won't hold on to them as long as one of us will keep our car.

Quadcammer

Its not so much air vs oil cooled, but rather that you have 11+ quarts of oil that you need to get up to around 212 degrees in order to cook off any water or contaminants in the oil. The more oil you've got, the longer that takes. The average honda 4 banger only has about 4.5-5 quarts of oil in it.

pretty ignorant and difficult to follow post for you.

WPOZZZ

Drive both cars and see what you prefer as the "feel" of each car is very different. As for ac, you can always upgrade the ac in the 86 if need be. I drive my 86 all over the place and the ac is disconnected.

What is the name of the shop that is selling the cars? Please post the name as I'm sure other members can give input on the quality of their work.