wwest

"..the bottom line is NOPE..."

Especially if YOU have a high priced high margin product whose sales are threatened......

The proof is in the "pudding".

What's the cost of trying it vs those pricey high margin products.

If you have doubts then simply pay a little attention to the initial, FIRST, action the Porsche engineers took to improve the performance of the early A/C. And remember that their response may have been different had the popularity of FWD, sideways mounted engines, come along a bit sooner.

griffiths

LOL WWEST you crack me up.
If I thought putting fans on deck lid condensers was the best thing since
pop tops on beer cans ... believe me, I would have cut my own molds,
blown my own plastics, wound my own motors and flooded the market eons ago.

And your right on what Porsche actually did with the pre 964 models (aka 911 up through 1989) .. they added more condenser area by placing a condenser in the front with a blower fan.

Look WWEST, I now you have a personal hard xn for our products, but at least same something logical once in a while.

wwest

The best thing.....

No, I suspect adding a condensor inside a wheelwell with blower forced airflow might be the BEST thing.

But there is always, for many of us, a monetary compromise.

Have you even TRIED the rear deck fan solution or only relied on theory..?

A personal hard xn....?

No, well maybe the pro-cooler, but otherwise should the rear lid fans not be a solution.....

wwest

Sometimes things that appear to be illogical, turn out to be quite reasonable, again, like that bumblebee.....

AirCoolBill

After two days of soaking the fan set screw still no luck. I ordered Kroil today, will see if that does the trick.

griffiths

Try the Kroil. Just try not to strip the allen or you'll need the drill.
Try slightly tightening and then the loosen.
If the Kroil does not work then a maybe a little heat (not too much, don't want to distort the top of the fan assembly.

Patience is an art

scottb

This is the most "telling" part of this dispute, IMHO. Nobody knows more about a/c for our air-cooled cars than Charlie Griffiths. I have no doubt that he has tested a variety of fans on the rear deck and, with his usual diligence, has determined they are little to no benefit (especially on "non-tail" cars where this is little room for fans of any decent size).

And as to WWest's comment about Charlie's high-margin items -- keep in mind that Griffiths sells to a small marketplace and spends a ton of time, money and effort on R & D. Having a healthy profit margin is probably the only way he can stay in business and sell the high quality components that he does.

I've watched WWest and Charlie "duke it out" here and on Pelican. Guys, let me make a suggestion -- agree to disagree, and move on. Clearly both of you think you're right, and even more clearly you're not going to convince the other to adopt your viewpoint. The personal attacks aren't necessary, and diminish from the good points being made.

My $.02.

griffiths

Bill,

We just had a 'stubborn' blower in here the other day. Neither 2 days of Kroil or induction heating of the hub worked on this unit so we tried something a bit more invasive:

We used a 'chop saw' (abrasive disk saw) to cut the motor shaft between the blower wheel's hub and the top of the motor. We then placed the hub of the wheel over a socket that was same diameter on an anvil to give it support, and simply used a punch to knock the shaft through hub. Rather quick and simple if you have chop saw or large enough diameter cutting blade (common hack saw is a bit too soft for the motor shaft material).

Caution if you do this: don't saw the blower wheel with the saw and don't deform the hub or the bent tabs where the hub mounts to the blower wheel.

Steam Driver

I know this is an old thread, but has anyone tried just putting a bigger (as in higher capacity) blower on the front condenser? It seems to me (testing it on the bench) that the original doesn't put out nearly enough air to adequately cover the width of that condenser.

griffiths

Paul,

We offer an 'upgrade' blower motor, about 25% more air, where you send us your complete housing, we install the new motor, balance the blower wheel and install an inline fuse. For this service please PM.

The issue with the front blower 'box' design is trying to direct the same volume or air across the entire coil at the given angle and space. Very difficult unless you want to hack the front end.

We also offer a high performance front condenser, here:
Kuehl High Performance Front Condenser

wwest

Griffiths/Kuehl sells mostly SNAKE OIL..!

The 25% addition airflow is based ONLY on bench testing, not in actual use, with actual inlet and outlet flow restrictions.

If you take a close look at their front condensor it is easy to see that it will be a lot less efficient "at speed" vs the OEM version, natural airflow from forward motion is BLOCKED.

I would clean the squirrel cage blower wheel, lub the front and rear brass bushings/bearings with 30 weight (soak the cotton wadding), check that the brushes are not clsoe to being worn down, and reinstall...

The 84-89, 964, 993 series have a (factory) method for powering the cabin heater blower in slow moving traffic should the engine compartment airflow not be sufficent for cooling the engine/A/C condenser/exhaust manifold.

You can accomplish the same task by simply lifting one of the heat control levers just enough to switch the cabin heater blower on.

griffiths

Wwest, I'll ignore your personal jihad against my company. But, so DIY's don't get led astray by your silly mis-information;


The Kuehl Serpentine condenser is surrounded by the factory stone guard/grill alike the old fashion tube and fin unit. Air flow under the car does not provide
any noticeable cooling affect on the stock unit or our unit. The front condenser is designed to work with the fan arrangement as it is. If Porsche thought it would be a good idea to get "more air" under the car they would have made a venturi, baffle or vent to direct the on coming air through the condenser, or they would have mounted the condenser face on to on coming air. The design of the car is to reduce air moving under it.

The Kuehl unit benefits in both its total surface area relative to coolant tube contact and because of the direction and layout of the cooling fins. We have performed air flow tests on stock units, competitors and the Kuehl, and the Kuehl allows more air to flow through its fins.

As far as trying to salvage a bosch motor is that 24 to 43 years old....
Oil is hit and miss. It all depends upon how worn the bearing surfaces are.
You will never find the 'cotton wadding'.
Oil does not replace metal.
You could try to replace the brush set but you can't replace the commutator.
The fan blades on the front condenser blower wheel seldom have 'debris', in most cases if they look bad its rust and by the time you try to clean the rust off of the factory balanced wheel you could do more damage than its worth.
Do install 7.5 amp in line fuse if your model does not have one.

And, the up through 89's aux heater blower does not cool the engine, was not designed to cool the engine; you will run your battery down trying to do so.

jar0023

If you want more airflow you can use a Carrera footwell blower motor in place of the regular condenser blower motor. You have to tweak the spade connectors on the wiring harness (IIRC change female to male spade) but otherwise the footwell motor is the same physical dimensions and will bolt into the housing same as the regular motor right down to the small phillips screw on the end. From memory the regular condenser motor runs mid 3k rpms and the footwell motor runs closer to 5k rpms. It will produce more airflow and more noise. You won't hear it inside with the windows up and A/C on but you definitely hear it standing in front of the car.

As it's set up from the factory the condenser moves just enough air to create a circular airflow when the car is at rest. Flow is down on the left side and up on the right side. Someone at Pelican came up with a diagram. I tested it with a square of toilet tissue. The suction on the right side will hold it against the protective cage.

I ran the footwell blower motor for a while and eventually went back to the regular condenser motor. I noticed no difference at speed and not much difference at low speeds. I don't spend any real time in heavy traffic where the more powerful fan might make a difference. -J

Steam Driver

Thanks for all of the good information.

I've already had to "tweak" the spade lug connector, the original was melted!

wwest

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