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I've been over in the water cooled forums for awhile, but I want to get you guys' input on what you would do with my '77 targa.
About the car - currently not running, it was a "garage find" that I tried to buy for a long time, and finally got the call out of the blue. It was driven into the garage by an over-enthusiastic hobbyist who thought he'd 'fix it up'. He consequently dropped the engine/transaxle and started sanding on the original paint. Then kids, no time, he was surely over his head, etc.. It was probably a decent 80k mille used car when he started his refurb and quit on it. He put the engine back in and here's how it sits today with me.
As you can see, it was a chocolate brown/tan targa with the ats wheels. It's a 5 speed. It has some pan tray rust under the battery, but the rest of it is real straight and original, was an Alabama car. About me, I have a decent shop facility, restoration experience, and a good Porsche guy. I can get it freshed up and running back on the road fairly easily. I also have an adequate painter. This'd be just a clean, dependable driver car for me.
So, obviously this probably wouldn't be a lot of guys' first choice looking for a 911. I don't like the color or the wheels, and not head over heels about a '77 or the fact that it's a targa, although it's grown on me enough to seek you guys' advice here. It's still numbers matching drivetrain, so if I decide to dive into this, my questions are - will I destroy it if I put change colors to something like this? I know the wheel change wouldn't matter that's easily enough changed back, and the originals are in good shape.
I think I'd be more excited about keeping and driving it looking like this, rather than stock, the way it came. I just wouldn't want to ruin a good 911 with a color change. Does it really even matter on a '77 targa? Is there a time where it will matter, and if so how far away is that? These cars aren't even really "up" yet, but surely will be sometime. I deal a lot in 60's 70's American muscle cars, and a lot of my job is just putting things back to the way they originally came. It's not so much that I'm a purist, rather that original, 'numbers cars' are always more desireable with good provenance. That said, I have plenty of fun cars that aren't all orginal or numbers matching, and I drive all of them. I'm not going to be chasing concours ribbons with any of my stuff.
So, should I put it back original, or just build it like I'd want it? Or do I just send it on and wait for another air cooled car either a little earlier or later?
Color change will still bother purists on resale. It also requires a lot of work to do it properly. Half hearted attempts get no love.
Here's a good example of an over-the-top color change on a Mercedes Roadster.
... involved here could make sense for an owner who truly loved the car. As I read your thoughtful comments, it doesn't seem to me like you really do. I get that. My sense is you'll be happier to be rid of it and out on the prowl for one that really does capture your heart.
- Nothing like pulling down the targa top and windows and drive on the backroads on a sunny afternoon. Targas are awesome!
- '77 is a very fine car. The engine might have taken some punishment if it had thermal reactors and 5-blade fan, so you should exercise caution, but a well-running 2.7 engine with CIS is a sassy little thing that revs freely and provides plenty of enjoyment, despite what the haters say.
- '77 is a very fine car also because it's the last of the narrow bodies. Classy, understated, elegant. The chrome targa bar is great. The 991 Targa has the chrome targa bar as a homage to pre-SC targas.
- Cookie cutters look great on middies
- That blue is a wonderful color but I would keep it brown. It's a great classic color, you don't see that many around. It would definitely hurt resale in my opinion.
^^^ Very true. If it's too involved for you, like it was for the last guy, it may be better to find an easier project.....If it's even a project you are looking for.
Two years ago I had Ed Hughes '84 Targa fall into my lap when it was in need of all new suspension, engine, interior, etc. I so wanted it and wanted the challenge it presented me. Unfortunately I had a daughter announce a pending wedding and the car had to go. I just could not see paying for a wedding and restoration work on two Porsches, and what is now 4 kids away at school. Anyway, moral of the story is that sometimes no matter how much we would love to... the timing and money isn't right......'Cause ya gotta admit it could easily be $20,000 to make that car right.
Having owned many many P cars for the last 40 plus years my 1976 911S Targa still ranks among the top smiles per mile cars Ive had.
No power steering, no power brakes, no power windows, no power seats. Just pure sports car. The 2.7L motor once rebuilt and updated is a pure joy to drive. Car is light weight, smooth, top down off with a wonderful exhaust note.
If you can afford it, keep it on the road or sell it to a DIY guy. Fun car.
Having owned many many P cars for the last 40 plus years my 1976 911S Targa still ranks among the top smiles per mile cars Ive had.
No power steering, no power brakes, no power windows, no power seats. Just pure sports car. The 2.7L motor once rebuilt and updated is a pure joy to drive. Car is light weight, smooth, top down fun with a wonderful exhaust note.
If you can afford it, keep in on the road or sell it to a DIY guy. Fun car.
I agree. My first Porsche was a euro '76 Targa. After owning it for 10+ years, I never understood all of the hate for the 2.7. It was a great little car - very nimble & light, a blast to drive! I wish I had that car now.
I say color change is ok, but keep it stock otherwise. I love the cookie cutters.
You weren't faced with the routine of dead after dead after dead 3-10 year old 2.7L era car coming into the shop, and being faced with how to economically fix what usually was a $7-8K car. Sad truth is that there were the "we'll name your price" shops where the customer would pay 100-150% of the retail value of the repaired car to get it properly fixed. The rest of us? Educate the customer as best you could, and get the job done. And get chiseled because the guy, more often than not, couldn't afford the car. More recently at: 996/M96 engines.
Oh, and all the while usually be blamed for said car being a POS money pit. But, the craptastic 2.7 (and 915 and 944 timing belt) paid for that part of law school that wasn't covered by scholarshp, so I've got to thank Porsche for that.
(What would have happened to the carcass of Ruby if it didn't fall out of my trailer in front of Doug's house on my way to Phoenix? Chop saw, I suppose. That car was all about the parts.)
Come on Ed, it was a fantastic car.....It just had a few issues. Someday it will find an owner that doesn't have 1,000 irons in the fire. The struts I am building were on Ruby while she was here. Heck, lots of the parts on my car I had purchased for Ruby. ....OK change the topic.
Lots of good thoughts here, they are much appreciated. I'm not afraid of the depth of the project, just would like to approach it the right way. I'm comfortable that I can make it as nice as it needs to be. "I" meaning, I trust my mechanic and paint guy enough that it's not gambling on how it'd turn out. The 2.7 would benefit from upgrading all the known issues, and would probably be fine after it's freshened up.
I'm not a cab guy for sure, but the idea of a targa has grown on me. I've had a couple SC's, a 993 and currently an early 996, which I love. Also have done a 914, a 2.7 Boxster and the 944s to death. A 968 is still on a shorter list. I would have liked to have stumbled on a little earlier car, but this '77 kinda landed in my lap. I did consider, and excuse the idea of a backdate, I guess that's a little too goofy for me. I'm thinking now maybe a color and wheel change wouldn't kill it. I'd like to keep it at least how it could have come. Please keep your thoughts and opinions coming!
- Nothing like pulling down the targa top and windows and drive on the backroads on a sunny afternoon. Targas are awesome!
- '77 is a very fine car. The engine might have taken some punishment if it had thermal reactors and 5-blade fan, so you should exercise caution, but a well-running 2.7 engine with CIS is a sassy little thing that revs freely and provides plenty of enjoyment, despite what the haters say.
- '77 is a very fine car also because it's the last of the narrow bodies. Classy, understated, elegant. The chrome targa bar is great. The 991 Targa has the chrome targa bar as a homage to pre-SC targas.
- Cookie cutters look great on middies
- That blue is a wonderful color but I would keep it brown. It's a great classic color, you don't see that many around. It would definitely hurt resale in my opinion.
I'm with Rich 100% on this. These are VERY well made cars and worth the trouble to restore & enjoy.
you will not destroy it if you change colors to something like that beautiful blue shown (sugar scoops do destroy a car, so kill them quick)
you have a shop but is it a body/paint shop?
good paint is a LOT of work
a full body strip means you might want to think about stiffening the chassis, and a big pow-pow motor, and .... (see where it goes)
'77 is pretty well "rust-proofed" so that is good; thermal reactors, yes, a potential issue that can be easily addressed by a competent specialist machine shop and a stack of $1,000 bills but maybe you are lucky...
cookie cutters are not the lightest or strongest, but are fine
02-17-2017, 09:18 PM
My '77 911S targa "fix or pass" ideas..
but I would keep it brown. It's a great classic color, you don't see that many around. It would definitely hurt resale in my opinion.
