Wow....PICS...I Am Humbled!
09-06-2006, 02:42 PM
#17
Three Wheelin'
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Just my $.02, but for track use where balance is much more critical than on the street, I could see adding a raised wing (that's like really a "no-brainer" isn't it? Every major sportscar format has winged cars! If there wasn't an advantage we wouldn't spend the time and money on them.) If nothing else it becomes a "gross" method of getting the car close to balanced, especially if you're runing a non-adjustable front splitter. With our rear-engined cars we just can't get that close to 50/50 F/R. To drive really fast you have to learn how to handle all of that weight hung-out the back, and trust that the oversteer you got on entry is going to become understeer when you get on the power again, and use it to your advantage. There's so many other variables going on in track use I'd look at before messing too much with trying to fine tune a car with the wing. Shocks and ride-height have just as much of an impact on the handling as the aero devices anymore. Its great fun trying to figure it all out though isn't it?
09-06-2006, 04:16 PM
#19
ive decided thought i aplaued that workmenship of the car, id rather have a 993 TT or a 993 narrow body with a turbo kit and a stock body and interrior.
the car is cool in its own respect thought
the car is cool in its own respect thought
09-06-2006, 04:21 PM
#20
Nordschleife Master
FWIW, several of my customers with 964 Cup Cars were forced to remove the 964 3.8RSR wing and 993RSR front splitter and go back to the stock electric unit with no front splitter. Their lap times have improved so the small electric wing at least does not hurt the aero package. As mentioned previously, the wings needs to be at the roof line to be in the air for them to be effective. On my car I had to add a wickerbill to the wing to get some amount of effectiveness.
09-06-2006, 06:14 PM
#22
Three Wheelin'
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Geoffrey,
I can definitely see that. I think the rear wing is most effective when used in conjunction with a diffuser in order to help accelerate the air coming out of it and shaping the air off the back of the car to optimize the drag, but like I stated earlier, that was a little before my time in IMSA and I did very little experimentation with those kinds of devices. I do think its pretty cool though to watch a 911 with a wing and diffuser in the rain throw up a high rooster tail from under the car. It really sucks the air up and out of that thing.
I can definitely see that. I think the rear wing is most effective when used in conjunction with a diffuser in order to help accelerate the air coming out of it and shaping the air off the back of the car to optimize the drag, but like I stated earlier, that was a little before my time in IMSA and I did very little experimentation with those kinds of devices. I do think its pretty cool though to watch a 911 with a wing and diffuser in the rain throw up a high rooster tail from under the car. It really sucks the air up and out of that thing.
09-06-2006, 06:14 PM
#23
Racer
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As a fabricator, and a DIY kinda guy, I can look at this car and really appreciate the attention to detail. This guy has a lot of work into this thing. Simply an amazing piece of work. I think I would like the car car better if he kept the wing on the back off the track as well. There are a few things i would have done differently or changed, but wow....very nice car....GOOD JOB!!
09-06-2006, 07:40 PM
#25
Nordschleife Master
Joe,
Here is a picture of my wickerbill attached to the 3.8 wing. It is an autoclaved carbon fibre piece from Crawford Engineering. It is only through the DAS in my car that I can see any kind of effectiveness. There is little difference in feel from the lowest position to the highest position. The Bananna wing is certainly effective, but that is mounted high up and also needs a wickerbill to be effective. I think that the rake of the car has more effect on the handling than any of the stock wings. IE a small change in rake will make a large change in handling.
RE the car in question, I think it looks cool, RSR flares, black, cool rear end. I don't know what anyone is complaining about. Wing/no wing, the car is cool and probably a blast to drive, not to mention probably better than a 930 chassis in most respects, especially if it has been put on a diet.
Here is a picture of my wickerbill attached to the 3.8 wing. It is an autoclaved carbon fibre piece from Crawford Engineering. It is only through the DAS in my car that I can see any kind of effectiveness. There is little difference in feel from the lowest position to the highest position. The Bananna wing is certainly effective, but that is mounted high up and also needs a wickerbill to be effective. I think that the rake of the car has more effect on the handling than any of the stock wings. IE a small change in rake will make a large change in handling.
RE the car in question, I think it looks cool, RSR flares, black, cool rear end. I don't know what anyone is complaining about. Wing/no wing, the car is cool and probably a blast to drive, not to mention probably better than a 930 chassis in most respects, especially if it has been put on a diet.
Last edited by Geoffrey; 09-06-2006 at 11:23 PM.
09-06-2006, 11:11 PM
#26
Three Wheelin'
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Wickerbills add just a little turbulence to the air flowing off the back edge of the wing, and as I understand it, since I've only taken one class in fluid dynamics, it helps to keep the air acting like its still attached to the surface for a smidgen longer than it normally would which aids in reducing the drag you would normally have, and increasing by a miniscule amount, the downforce the wing generates. Think of it as an upside flap on an aircraft's wing (since our wing on cars is mounted "upside down" to an AC's.) We used one on our wing too. Only it wasn't a sophisticated piece of carbon fiber, but an aluminium "L" of different heights slipped into a channel on the back of the wing. It seemed to help on slower, "high-downforce" circuits like Lime Rock (when do you put the flaps out on an airplane?) We'd try it on tracks like Daytona and Sebring, but normally by the first stop in the first practice session it was gone, never to be seen the rest of that meeting. Its all part of that voodoo that the aero guys do so well.
09-06-2006, 11:17 PM
#27
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Geoffrey,
Once again, I think you're right on the money. Ride height and shock valving I think will do more for the handling of the car than anything else. If you can keep that car's height under control and get the shock dynometer to get you to the right shock response for the given track, you'll have a good handling car right out of the box. After that, its tire pressure and maybe sway bar settings to get you dialed in.
Once again, I think you're right on the money. Ride height and shock valving I think will do more for the handling of the car than anything else. If you can keep that car's height under control and get the shock dynometer to get you to the right shock response for the given track, you'll have a good handling car right out of the box. After that, its tire pressure and maybe sway bar settings to get you dialed in.
