I need some opinions
12-18-2008, 06:48 PM
#16
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From that point of view I would probably upgrade, all things being equal.
You just need to realize that all cars you buy are likely to see price weakness for a couple years due to worldwide deflation. But either your 930 or your Carrera would deflate probably about the same so it is not like you can escape the market climate.
In other words the trade-up probably will not hurt you financially any more than what is coming in the marketplace anyway.
You just need to realize that all cars you buy are likely to see price weakness for a couple years due to worldwide deflation. But either your 930 or your Carrera would deflate probably about the same so it is not like you can escape the market climate.
In other words the trade-up probably will not hurt you financially any more than what is coming in the marketplace anyway.
Here is the question no one asked. Is 20k the bottom line on the 930? That cars been on your lot since the summer and its price is not going up anytime in the next decade. Is the dealer paying to carry the car? If it is then it’s a no brainer for them to sell it to you for the price you can sell your 88. It’s a free and clear swap too if you run the sale of both cars through the dealer and get the tax credit. If the dealer needs a piece you could be kind and toss em a 500 dollar or less bone. I am guessing all parties would be happy with that set up.
As long as the mechanicals are sound and the rest of the car is well attended to as you stated then its a really low risk deal IMO. Where's the price of that 930 going to be in 2 years with 10k more miles on it? Its not going to lose 50% of its value and if its as tight and well kept as you suspect then the yearly cost to own (utility cost of money aside) should be pretty reasonable. The only issue is if there is a major mechanical problem.
Whatever you do don't go into this as some sort of investment. It's a car and I can guarantee you'll never get your money out of it. The only return you should be looking for is miles and smiles! Good luck!
12-18-2008, 07:10 PM
#17
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The only advice I will give is to drive a newer/lower milage similar car and see if you can feel a big difference. There are a lot of little plastic pieces in our cars in some important places that do wear out. These will be reflected in handling if they are really worn. An example is the steering wheel bushing that keeps the wheel from wiggling or having play in it while steering. Another is the plastic bushing and parts in the shifter assembly that can make a car shift like and an old truck. The front strut shocks and the rear shocks may be worn out. The front control arms have hard rubber bushings pressed into the arms that will really affect the ride and cornering if they are worn. Inside the two doors are a lot of little plastic parts that control the windows that a fragile. Turn signal stalks are fragile. These things are not critical to "Running" but will add up to replace. You are probablly going to have to replace some hoses and wire, etc.
My point is that unless this car has had engine/tranny rebuild and clutch replacement recently you could be looking at some big bucks near term. Go slow, maybe you can get it for less. Good luck!
NEW... I traded my '87 Carrera for my '87 930 and even though the Carrera had only 21,000 miles and the 930 had 65,000, the difference between the two cars was so great that I thought I was driving a completly different make of car. In other words the two cars are so different that you really do need to compare 930 to 930 with greatly different miles on them to feel if there is a difference. The 930 is such a beast that the excitement level alone will make going back to the Carrera seem like a golf cart.
My point is that unless this car has had engine/tranny rebuild and clutch replacement recently you could be looking at some big bucks near term. Go slow, maybe you can get it for less. Good luck!
NEW... I traded my '87 Carrera for my '87 930 and even though the Carrera had only 21,000 miles and the 930 had 65,000, the difference between the two cars was so great that I thought I was driving a completly different make of car. In other words the two cars are so different that you really do need to compare 930 to 930 with greatly different miles on them to feel if there is a difference. The 930 is such a beast that the excitement level alone will make going back to the Carrera seem like a golf cart.
Last edited by 911rudy; 12-19-2008 at 02:17 PM. Reason: add
12-18-2008, 07:33 PM
#18
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Senne, I respectfully dont agree on the 50%. Short of a wreck the part value alone of that 930 will keep it from shedding 50% of its value. If the OP gets into it at 18 or 19 could it be a 15k car in a couple of years? Maybe, I doubt it but it would be pretty damm hard for it to fall to that level or lower.
12-18-2008, 11:02 PM
#20
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Thanks you guys are great. I will probably buy the 930. I just can not pass on the fact that the service records are perfect. To me that is worth $5k. Im not saying that I wont have to put dough into it but atleast I know what kind of home it came from and how well it was treated. This car was driven but clearly not abused. My 88 Carrera is from chicago (salty winters) with miles that are not exact. I am the fourth owner and the paint is cheaply done. Ive done alot of work but the car is slow and may need a top end (blue smoke on starts). Knowone here said to run away from the 930 and that was good to know. I just need to make sure I sell the 911 first.
Thanks
Ryan
Thanks
Ryan
12-18-2008, 11:22 PM
#21
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A lot of Carrera owners might perceive the 930 as 'less reliable' or 'more costly'...and that is true to a degree, but mainly because the carrera lasts 300K miles without engine work, and because upgrading the power on a turbo becomes an expensive hobby.
A never ending expensive hobby.
A never ending expensive hobby.
12-19-2008, 07:10 PM
#25
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Senne, I respectfully dont agree on the 50%. Short of a wreck the part value alone of that 930 will keep it from shedding 50% of its value. If the OP gets into it at 18 or 19 could it be a 15k car in a couple of years? Maybe, I doubt it but it would be pretty damm hard for it to fall to that level or lower.
If you don't think prices are coming down then I suggest you simply look at CGT prices. This one here (Black on Black with 2,900 miles) http://www.catsexotics.com/used_vehi...f4b296e&bhcp=1 just sold and was listed for $365k DELIVERED to lower 48 states. Four or five months ago that car would have been about $400k. That's for a very limited production, crown jewel of the Porsche world. That's about a 10% drop in that time. The economy is only going to get worse before it gets better. In 12 months I'll go on record as saying you'll be able to get a very nice CGT in the 200K range. If the top drops what makes you belive the bottom wont be pushed further down buy that drop?
12-19-2008, 11:09 PM
#26
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I completely agree prices are falling like a stone. My point on this particular car is simple, its already a 20K car in real dollar terms its very difficult for it to become a 10k dollar car on an intrinsic base. A good clean 930 shell, straight and no rust will always have several grand worth of value. The 7 and 9 inch Fuchs will always be worth a grand or two.
Can the price of this car fall even without it being in a wreck? Sure and it might but for it to go from 20 k to 10 k is not easy. The point you make about the CGT, although clearly true, is not really applicable to the depreciation curve on a 200k mil 20 plus year old 20k car. I agree there will be some push from the higher priced cars but again this car is so far down on its decay cycle its not going to experience the same % hits.
If I start seeing something like 993’s that 4 or 5 months ago were trading at 32k and all of a sudden start trading at 20k it will have a much greater effect on this particular car then a CGT going from 400k to 295k.
Differences of opinions are what make a market place!!
Can the price of this car fall even without it being in a wreck? Sure and it might but for it to go from 20 k to 10 k is not easy. The point you make about the CGT, although clearly true, is not really applicable to the depreciation curve on a 200k mil 20 plus year old 20k car. I agree there will be some push from the higher priced cars but again this car is so far down on its decay cycle its not going to experience the same % hits.
If I start seeing something like 993’s that 4 or 5 months ago were trading at 32k and all of a sudden start trading at 20k it will have a much greater effect on this particular car then a CGT going from 400k to 295k.
Differences of opinions are what make a market place!!
12-20-2008, 10:43 AM
#27
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I completely agree prices are falling like a stone. My point on this particular car is simple, its already a 20K car in real dollar terms its very difficult for it to become a 10k dollar car on an intrinsic base. A good clean 930 shell, straight and no rust will always have several grand worth of value. The 7 and 9 inch Fuchs will always be worth a grand or two.
Can the price of this car fall even without it being in a wreck? Sure and it might but for it to go from 20 k to 10 k is not easy. The point you make about the CGT, although clearly true, is not really applicable to the depreciation curve on a 200k mil 20 plus year old 20k car. I agree there will be some push from the higher priced cars but again this car is so far down on its decay cycle its not going to experience the same % hits.
If I start seeing something like 993’s that 4 or 5 months ago were trading at 32k and all of a sudden start trading at 20k it will have a much greater effect on this particular car then a CGT going from 400k to 295k.
Differences of opinions are what make a market place!!
Can the price of this car fall even without it being in a wreck? Sure and it might but for it to go from 20 k to 10 k is not easy. The point you make about the CGT, although clearly true, is not really applicable to the depreciation curve on a 200k mil 20 plus year old 20k car. I agree there will be some push from the higher priced cars but again this car is so far down on its decay cycle its not going to experience the same % hits.
If I start seeing something like 993’s that 4 or 5 months ago were trading at 32k and all of a sudden start trading at 20k it will have a much greater effect on this particular car then a CGT going from 400k to 295k.
Differences of opinions are what make a market place!!
But I will say that if prices go down 50% on a carrera, wow, that would mean serious chaos is going on in the world, IMO.
It is possible, but I am hoping that the market holds up somehow better than that.
We don't want to go there.