New Dyno Numbers
05-19-2009, 11:19 PM
#1
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New Dyno Numbers
From my 3.2 Carrera Turbo
Fresh from the dyno, Good News
First run 580rwhp@ 22psi of boost, Second Run 621rwhp@ 22psi of boost, 3 er run 675.1rwho@28psi of boost and 640FT.TORQUE 
Now the BAD news 
675hp spinning the tires we will do some suspension work to see if we can stop the spinning and the real bad news 
It looks like Mr. Single Plug has come to the end of his career at 675whp from single plug it may be a little too much to ask, twin plug will be added sometime in the future now is time to drive the thing and a few more 1/4 mile passes to see what she does.
Thanks to my good friends at Billet Design, DR Camshafts- (Dougherty Racing Cams) DTA, My dear friend Jose Estevez from Turbo Werks talk about a BULLET PROOF Engine, and special Thanks to no other than the legend Mr. Eddie Tito Bello for doing Magic, your level of expertise about Porsche is un real.
Enjoy them
Fresh from the dyno, Good News
First run 580rwhp@ 22psi of boost, Second Run 621rwhp@ 22psi of boost, 3 er run 675.1rwho@28psi of boost and 640FT.TORQUE Now the BAD news 675hp spinning the tires we will do some suspension work to see if we can stop the spinning and the real bad news It looks like Mr. Single Plug has come to the end of his career at 675whp from single plug it may be a little too much to ask, twin plug will be added sometime in the future now is time to drive the thing and a few more 1/4 mile passes to see what she does.Thanks to my good friends at Billet Design, DR Camshafts- (Dougherty Racing Cams) DTA, My dear friend Jose Estevez from Turbo Werks talk about a BULLET PROOF Engine, and special Thanks to no other than the legend Mr. Eddie Tito Bello for doing Magic, your level of expertise about Porsche is un real.
Enjoy them
05-20-2009, 11:56 AM
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Awesome amount of power, 620bhp at 1.5bar, that's like 700ish at the crank right? A friend of mine has 600 (engine dyno numbers) at the crank at 1.2bar, would he be at 750 (630ish at the wheels) with 1.5bar? Or 850 (a little over 700 at the wheels) at the 1.7bar you're running?
Eddie must be running something like 3.0bar of boost to get up in the 1200's! Amazing it all stays together, good work
Eddie must be running something like 3.0bar of boost to get up in the 1200's! Amazing it all stays together, good work
05-20-2009, 12:41 PM
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Is my understanding that the drive-train loss is 12% ? I'd been asking around for a while and some people claim 15% ? "Assuming" we use the 12%, then we can say 675+ 12%= 756HP 
"IF" that is the correct math,lol, those runs are done on C116 Sunoco Racing Fuel.
"IF" that is the correct math,lol, those runs are done on C116 Sunoco Racing Fuel.
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05-20-2009, 01:58 PM
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Jeeeezzzzeeee talk about turbo lag. Seems you're chasing big HP numbers at the expense of drive-ability.
As a given rule most cars loose around 20% of their "initial" HP to the drive train. What does that mean? Well, let's say you've got a car such as mine that came with 200 crank HP. Dyno it and you'd have 160hp at the wheels. Then if you slapped on a bigger turbo, intercooler, upped the boost to and got 300 rwhp the car would still only be loosing 40hp to the drive train. That number DOES NOT GO UP as it takes 40hp to move all the bits. I mean why would the drive train suddenly require more power to overcome the internal dynamics associated with the power loss?
You're just stroking yourself by adding 12-15% of your MAX dyno amount to get your crank HP.
So for a 930 figure you loose about 60hp to drive train. Add that to your max amount.
As a given rule most cars loose around 20% of their "initial" HP to the drive train. What does that mean? Well, let's say you've got a car such as mine that came with 200 crank HP. Dyno it and you'd have 160hp at the wheels. Then if you slapped on a bigger turbo, intercooler, upped the boost to and got 300 rwhp the car would still only be loosing 40hp to the drive train. That number DOES NOT GO UP as it takes 40hp to move all the bits. I mean why would the drive train suddenly require more power to overcome the internal dynamics associated with the power loss?
You're just stroking yourself by adding 12-15% of your MAX dyno amount to get your crank HP. So for a 930 figure you loose about 60hp to drive train. Add that to your max amount.
05-20-2009, 07:27 PM
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it does not make sense. it is a proportional loss measured in %.
""As a given rule most cars loose around 20% of their "initial" HP to the drive train. What does that mean? Well, let's say you've got a car such as mine that came with 200 crank HP. Dyno it and you'd have 160hp at the wheels. Then if you slapped on a bigger turbo, intercooler, upped the boost to and got 300 rwhp the car would still only be loosing 40hp to the drive train. That number DOES NOT GO UP as it takes 40hp to move all the bits. I mean why would the drive train suddenly require more power to overcome the internal dynamics associated with the power loss?""
That statement is completely wrong, you use 20% to get your initial numbers then all of a sudden you drop the percent and it's a fixed loss????? explain that one please
Drivetrain losses are measured in % .
""As a given rule most cars loose around 20% of their "initial" HP to the drive train. What does that mean? Well, let's say you've got a car such as mine that came with 200 crank HP. Dyno it and you'd have 160hp at the wheels. Then if you slapped on a bigger turbo, intercooler, upped the boost to and got 300 rwhp the car would still only be loosing 40hp to the drive train. That number DOES NOT GO UP as it takes 40hp to move all the bits. I mean why would the drive train suddenly require more power to overcome the internal dynamics associated with the power loss?""
That statement is completely wrong, you use 20% to get your initial numbers then all of a sudden you drop the percent and it's a fixed loss????? explain that one please
Drivetrain losses are measured in % .
05-20-2009, 09:18 PM
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Now i'm confused. I've looked over old dyno charts that give me rear wheel numbers and then coast down losses to give an aprox crank number. The gap does seam to to be larger the bigger the HP, i'm loosing around 70hp from the crank to the wheels at 500ish HP, and when i was at the 400ish region it was under 60hp loss.
Chassis dyno numbers are spurious at best, and the torque figures may as well be thrown in the bin as not many can hold the engine at proper load on a turbo engine. It's a very old debate but it's pretty much accepted that the only true figures for these engines come from engine dynos. 8 to 12 second chassis dyno runs do not replicate true "real world" HP. I'm not saying the figures are wrong for the way it was tested, just that if the car was pushed hard for sustained periods it would not be delivering these numbers. A 10 second quarter mile pass is one thing, or even a 1.5 mile blast down a runway, the latter being a much harder test on the engine.
I would bet if you held any of these 1.5bar + aircooled motors for 4 miles or so at full chat you would end up with a wheel barrow full of engine parts
Chassis dyno numbers are spurious at best, and the torque figures may as well be thrown in the bin as not many can hold the engine at proper load on a turbo engine. It's a very old debate but it's pretty much accepted that the only true figures for these engines come from engine dynos. 8 to 12 second chassis dyno runs do not replicate true "real world" HP. I'm not saying the figures are wrong for the way it was tested, just that if the car was pushed hard for sustained periods it would not be delivering these numbers. A 10 second quarter mile pass is one thing, or even a 1.5 mile blast down a runway, the latter being a much harder test on the engine.
I would bet if you held any of these 1.5bar + aircooled motors for 4 miles or so at full chat you would end up with a wheel barrow full of engine parts
05-20-2009, 09:43 PM
#14
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Jose Estevez from Turbo Werks
05-22-2009, 09:38 PM
#15
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As a given rule most cars loose around 20% of their "initial" HP to the drive train. What does that mean? Well, let's say you've got a car such as mine that came with 200 crank HP. Dyno it and you'd have 160hp at the wheels. Then if you slapped on a bigger turbo, intercooler, upped the boost to and got 300 rwhp the car would still only be loosing 40hp to the drive train. That number DOES NOT GO UP as it takes 40hp to move all the bits. I mean why would the drive train suddenly require more power to overcome the internal dynamics associated with the power loss? You're just stroking yourself by adding 12-15% of your MAX dyno amount to get your crank HP.