'88 930
08-10-2012, 08:52 AM
#1
Banned
Thread Starter
'88 930
Doing a bit of background work on '88 930s.... I've found a higher mileage (102,000) 930 BLK on GRY. All stock. Engine and transmission just rebuilt (know the mechanic very well - and is top notch and worked with him rebuilding Jen's '89 engine - and he's helped me out when I get "stuck" on something on my 993).. OEM suspension, body excellent, paint excellent, etc... Fresh brakes/rotors, new shocks all round, blah...
Anything I need to know about '88s? While I've owned nearly every model Porsche (pre-996, anyway
) never owned a 930, so....???
BTW - if anyone has guesstimates on a range of fair market value as described - that would be great, as we are still negotiating...
Thanks!!!
Best to all,
John
Anything I need to know about '88s? While I've owned nearly every model Porsche (pre-996, anyway
) never owned a 930, so....???BTW - if anyone has guesstimates on a range of fair market value as described - that would be great, as we are still negotiating...
Thanks!!!
Best to all,
John
08-10-2012, 02:00 PM
#4
Banned
Thread Starter
Hey guys!
OK - the engine/clutch/tranny rebuild was just slightly north of $10K. Suspension/brakes - I think was about $2.7K.. It's a US car - and I'll have all the receipts to go through tomorrow. Everything is OEM (no aftermarket)... He's the third owner, and the reason for selling - is that he & his wife have six cars, and he likes his BMW (something ) for the room for their grand-kids... Like I said, he's a straight shooter - so just trying to land on the right price?
My thanks again!!
John
OK - the engine/clutch/tranny rebuild was just slightly north of $10K. Suspension/brakes - I think was about $2.7K.. It's a US car - and I'll have all the receipts to go through tomorrow. Everything is OEM (no aftermarket)... He's the third owner, and the reason for selling - is that he & his wife have six cars, and he likes his BMW (something
) for the room for their grand-kids... Like I said, he's a straight shooter - so just trying to land on the right price?My thanks again!!
John
08-10-2012, 03:55 PM
#5
Burning Brakes
Seriously?? I'd put it solidly in the 30's if it's as nice as described and documented rebuilds, maybe even higher.
High mileage has an effect on price, but for well maintained cars (and especially fresh, quality rebuilds) it doesn't seem to be as big a negative as it is with other marques, especially when everything stays stock.
High mileage has an effect on price, but for well maintained cars (and especially fresh, quality rebuilds) it doesn't seem to be as big a negative as it is with other marques, especially when everything stays stock.
08-10-2012, 04:27 PM
#6
uninformed gas bag
(contemplating on whether gas bag is one or two words)
Rennlist Member
(contemplating on whether gas bag is one or two words)
Rennlist Member
10k for the drivetrain sounds like more of a freshen than a full rebuild. Would the mechanic tell you that the seller took all his advice when it was apart?
08-10-2012, 06:20 PM
#7
Banned
Thread Starter
Yep... The mechanic is a good friend - and a very well known shop. In fact, he's the one that let me know that the current owner might sell - and put us in touch a few days ago.... Originally, when the owner picked it up - he didn't want to sell, but, being an elderly gentleman, only recently decided that he wanted to sell it - but only to the right customer (he's a bit fanatical about his cars). Since picking it up a month or so ago from the shop, he's only put 175 miles on the rebuilt engine - and, of course, the shop will stand behind their work if I buy the car...
As well, I think less then $30K would be a steal? I'm thinking that it's probably going to get priced in the mid $30s..??
My sincerest thanks again for all the input and comments!!!!
John
As well, I think less then $30K would be a steal? I'm thinking that it's probably going to get priced in the mid $30s..??
My sincerest thanks again for all the input and comments!!!!
John
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08-10-2012, 08:11 PM
#8
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As fresh as it might be, 10k is more like a freshen up as was mentioned.
100k plus miles is a lot miles on the rest of the car, even given the engine/tranny might be good.
Sight unseen, 20-30 is my bet. Sounds like you've already decided, I'd offer 25 and go from there if its as nice as described.
100k plus miles is a lot miles on the rest of the car, even given the engine/tranny might be good.
Sight unseen, 20-30 is my bet. Sounds like you've already decided, I'd offer 25 and go from there if its as nice as described.
08-10-2012, 08:56 PM
#9
Banned
Thread Starter
Great comments folks - THANK YOU!!!
Also - TT - nope, at over $30, I'm still a bit on the fence - and have no firm commitment..?? Which is why I really appreciate all the comments/thoughts...
I'll know tomorrow, as Jen & I are headed late afternoon to take a look. I saw it "apart" - but, tomorrow it's time to take a look and make a decision...?? When I know more, and take a look at all the records, drive it - etc. - I'll post back, OK? In the meantime - if anyone has any other thoughts - what I should look for - be aware of - it would be great!!!
Many thanks again!!!
John
Also - TT - nope, at over $30, I'm still a bit on the fence - and have no firm commitment..?? Which is why I really appreciate all the comments/thoughts...
I'll know tomorrow, as Jen & I are headed late afternoon to take a look. I saw it "apart" - but, tomorrow it's time to take a look and make a decision...?? When I know more, and take a look at all the records, drive it - etc. - I'll post back, OK? In the meantime - if anyone has any other thoughts - what I should look for - be aware of - it would be great!!!
Many thanks again!!!
John
08-12-2012, 01:46 PM
#11
Banned
Thread Starter
When we were scheduled yesterday afternoon, they were having severe T'storms & rain... We rescheduled for this AM, and it was still raining!? I really don't want to test drive it in the rain 
Hopefully, I'll have more info SOON!
Best to all - and again, thank you!
John
Hopefully, I'll have more info SOON!
Best to all - and again, thank you!
John
08-12-2012, 08:53 PM
#12
Thinking outside da' bun...
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I have an '88 and when I shopped, I tried to use all the context clues I could that would tell me about the type of owners that used to caretake the car I eventually bought.
To me you are buying the habits and faults of previous owners as much as you are buying a car. For me, the best place to start weeding out whether a car was important to the prior owners or "just another car" is to look at the overall cosmetic condition. Preservation is a wonderful tool to decide how the car once lived. There's a big difference between 110,000 soft miles and 110,000 hard miles. The hard miles can make the car look and drive like a 200,000 mile car, while 110,000 soft miles can make it look and feel like a 65,000 mile car.
There are some parts of preservation you just can't replicate. Things are only original once. The interior is a great place to gauge how a car has lived. In most cases cars that were pampered on the inside were also pampered everywhere else. Not too much you find an owner who lets some things go, but goes out of his way to keep everything else perfect. Its usually all or nothing. So in the case of the things you cant see, I use the things I can see to piece the puzzle together.
How does the dash look. Was this a car that sat outside.? What does the front valance look like. Stone-rashed to death or meticulously covered or touched up? Does the rubber trim look warped or faded? Do the wheels have curb rash? To me curb rash means someone once owned the car who didn't know how to drive. A 25yr old 930 with still nearly perfect Fuchs tells me this was a car someone went out of their way to protect whenever possible.
The rebuilds are fine is they were done correctly. The miles are not a deal-killer for me either. John, Brice Kadel sold his 119,000mi 911 Turbo Look last year and it was in better shape than 25,000 mile 911s. Miles do not equal disrepair alone.
These cars continue to appreciate and will only keep rising. Knowing that, I would not buy the first one I see. You can afford to be selective if you plan to keep it a while because its going to make financial sense and cost you far less long-term because of the strong forward-looking market.
Its expensive stuff to repair things. You can spend $5,000 just refurbishing a ratted interior back to new. So it will always pay to buy the preservation/repairs rather than pay for them yourself.
My get off the stage advice is to buy the nicest one you can realistically afford, and dont get caught up on a specific color or option requirement. Last thing I wanted was a red 930, but it just worked out that way. The car and the price said "you are an idiot if you walk away". So you have to have some flexibility. The color of the car or missing limited slip differential has nothing to do with whether the car lived a sheltered life or not. They are non-affected buying requirements.
So I would flex on things like that, concentrate on buying the car with the best bones. Because the car has no idea if its black or red or blue or white. Its going to run according to how well its been kept up -- no more no less.
To me you are buying the habits and faults of previous owners as much as you are buying a car. For me, the best place to start weeding out whether a car was important to the prior owners or "just another car" is to look at the overall cosmetic condition. Preservation is a wonderful tool to decide how the car once lived. There's a big difference between 110,000 soft miles and 110,000 hard miles. The hard miles can make the car look and drive like a 200,000 mile car, while 110,000 soft miles can make it look and feel like a 65,000 mile car.
There are some parts of preservation you just can't replicate. Things are only original once. The interior is a great place to gauge how a car has lived. In most cases cars that were pampered on the inside were also pampered everywhere else. Not too much you find an owner who lets some things go, but goes out of his way to keep everything else perfect. Its usually all or nothing. So in the case of the things you cant see, I use the things I can see to piece the puzzle together.
How does the dash look. Was this a car that sat outside.? What does the front valance look like. Stone-rashed to death or meticulously covered or touched up? Does the rubber trim look warped or faded? Do the wheels have curb rash? To me curb rash means someone once owned the car who didn't know how to drive. A 25yr old 930 with still nearly perfect Fuchs tells me this was a car someone went out of their way to protect whenever possible.
The rebuilds are fine is they were done correctly. The miles are not a deal-killer for me either. John, Brice Kadel sold his 119,000mi 911 Turbo Look last year and it was in better shape than 25,000 mile 911s. Miles do not equal disrepair alone.
These cars continue to appreciate and will only keep rising. Knowing that, I would not buy the first one I see. You can afford to be selective if you plan to keep it a while because its going to make financial sense and cost you far less long-term because of the strong forward-looking market.
Its expensive stuff to repair things. You can spend $5,000 just refurbishing a ratted interior back to new. So it will always pay to buy the preservation/repairs rather than pay for them yourself.
My get off the stage advice is to buy the nicest one you can realistically afford, and dont get caught up on a specific color or option requirement. Last thing I wanted was a red 930, but it just worked out that way. The car and the price said "you are an idiot if you walk away". So you have to have some flexibility. The color of the car or missing limited slip differential has nothing to do with whether the car lived a sheltered life or not. They are non-affected buying requirements.
So I would flex on things like that, concentrate on buying the car with the best bones. Because the car has no idea if its black or red or blue or white. Its going to run according to how well its been kept up -- no more no less.
08-13-2012, 09:00 AM
#13
Banned
Thread Starter
UPD - simply - AWESOME post and thoughts - thank you!!!!
I've re-read your comments more than a few times, and will keep you posted as to what I find... I especially appreciated your comment "...concentrate on buying the car with the best bones. Because the car has no idea if its black or red or blue or white..."
Well stated - with my thanks!
John
I've re-read your comments more than a few times, and will keep you posted as to what I find... I especially appreciated your comment "...concentrate on buying the car with the best bones. Because the car has no idea if its black or red or blue or white..."
Well stated - with my thanks!
John
08-17-2012, 01:55 PM
#14
Banned
Thread Starter
OK.. Here we go.. FINALLY - it was a nice day (rather than rain ) - and I saw/drove this '88..
The Good...
- Paint and cosmetics are probably 99%... With 105K on the the gal, I was shocked there wasn't more? The smile and rubber pieces are excellent, with the one exception around the rear window - which probably needs to be replaced.
- Interior - very well cared for, the owner added a few "bling" objects, but are easily removed. The dash and all items indicate it's been garaged it's whole life.
- The engine is strong with the new rebuild. About 1000 since it was done a couple of months ago (I thought it was more recent, but?)..
- Overall - it's in excellent condition...
- Finally - I went through all his receipts.. He's a Type A about the car, and has spent over the past 3.5 years over $21K to get the car "right". As well, the car has never been in an accident - with original paint and panels (and I checked for receipts from any paint work). He does "touch up" any chips on the front valance with OEM paint, but he does a better job than I do...
The NOT SO GOOD
- Little things will need attention... Replace some trim items that are just "pld";
- the sunroof hold down clip is broken (about a $5 part + my time to install);
- The alpine radio will have to be replaced or repaired (not that I listen to the radio?). It works, just the LCD panel is broken..
- Will need pads and probably rotors;
- He painted the factory FUCHS a gloss black? The wheels are excellent - no rash or rub marks. He just didn't like the OEM satin black?
- the driver side electrical switch for F-R is broken, but the second switch works fine?
Well - that's the story...
My Best to all..!
John
) - and I saw/drove this '88.. The Good...
- Paint and cosmetics are probably 99%... With 105K on the the gal, I was shocked there wasn't more? The smile and rubber pieces are excellent, with the one exception around the rear window - which probably needs to be replaced.
- Interior - very well cared for, the owner added a few "bling" objects, but are easily removed. The dash and all items indicate it's been garaged it's whole life.
- The engine is strong with the new rebuild. About 1000 since it was done a couple of months ago (I thought it was more recent, but?)..
- Overall - it's in excellent condition...
- Finally - I went through all his receipts.. He's a Type A about the car, and has spent over the past 3.5 years over $21K to get the car "right". As well, the car has never been in an accident - with original paint and panels (and I checked for receipts from any paint work). He does "touch up" any chips on the front valance with OEM paint, but he does a better job than I do...
The NOT SO GOOD
- Little things will need attention... Replace some trim items that are just "pld";
- the sunroof hold down clip is broken (about a $5 part + my time to install);
- The alpine radio will have to be replaced or repaired (not that I listen to the radio?). It works, just the LCD panel is broken..
- Will need pads and probably rotors;
- He painted the factory FUCHS a gloss black? The wheels are excellent - no rash or rub marks. He just didn't like the OEM satin black?
- the driver side electrical switch for F-R is broken, but the second switch works fine?
Well - that's the story...
My Best to all..!
John