Gary Gaukler

Hi,

I am looking at a car with a 73 2.0 liter engine that has been converted to dual carbs. If I understand it correctly, that engine makes 90 HP in stock form. The owner claims that the engine has been performance-rebuilt and now produces 125 HP.

That's a ~40% increase over stock. Is that a believable claim? Are there many engines that put out these kinds of numbers? I don't know what has been done to the engine beyond the conversion to carbs.

Thanks!
Gary

Rouser

And treat it as such, just a "claim". Unless he can tell you WHAT exactly was done to this 2.0L to make it put out 125HP, I seriously doubt it.
No, not without knowing exactly what was done to back up that claim.
Yes, just check here.
It's mysteries like these that allow the claim of 125HP with only a conversion to carbs to show for it.

Have the PO show you some receipts to back up such a claim, otherwise take it with a grain of salt.

Brother

Well, if the guy added up all the claims of the products he bought, he might think it has 125 hp. I probably would not with just bolt on products.

Jay Gratton

Matt Romanowskil has a 180 HP engine that was a 2.0, so yes it can put that out. But not with just carbs! Also, 73 2.0's put out 95HP (Don't sell yourself short, your going to need it ALL)!

yarin

Switching from a properly functioning stock 2.0L (95HP) to carbs will REDUCE horsepower. Bosch engineers tuned the system to perfection, something thats very difficult to do with carbs. 125HP is BS in my opinion, ask for the dyno slip to prove it. For all practical purposes, assume the car puts out stock power and adjust your price accordingly.

unless of course he has documentation for any of the following:
full headers 4-2-1
different cam
head work
compression increase
increased displacement

Jake Raby is the leader in Type IV engines. check it out: http://www.massivetype4.com/
$$$ but leading edge technology that has extracted maximum power with extra reliability from these motors.

Maybe i'm just bitter cuz the bum i bought my car off told me the motor was dynoed at 140hp and ready to race. Get it home and installed, the carbs weren't even synchronized. Ended up going with megasquirt.

Gary Gaukler

Thanks everyone for the helpful replies! Very impressive work that Jake Raby does.

Best,
Gary

Rotten Robby

Gary,
Going with completely old school data pulled from sources like Up-Fixen and the PCA Tech Forums on the National PCA site it is possible the engine could have had a performance rebuild and had a peak HP output of 125 in fact they claim 130 HP is possible with carbs, cam, and Euro pistons which increase compression by about 1 click.
Anything beyond that, again according to the old school sources was a grenade.
Now as it regards this particular car you are looking at, I would not believe the "claims" unless he put it on a dyno and showed you that it made that kind of power, or as others have suggested, showed you reciepts and such. As it regards "claims" of horsepower and torque when someone is selling you an engine take this advice; if they tell you the sky is blue, run outside and look up.
What Raby has done with the Type 4 is actually kind of amazing from the point of view that he is making the engines last. The configurations he is doing were done in the 70's by many engine builders. He has done R&D that others left behind because it was easier to make money other ways. New heads are available, and he even has a roller cam/lifter set up on the horizon. Controversial guy though. He is not blessed with social skills. Makes many people angry with his in-your-face approach. If you deal with him just be aware and a little tolerant of that. He is aware of it and if you point it out to him he will apologize and tone it down. I think he laments the lack of social prowess but can't help himself. Nice guy under that though...

JW911

About 20 years ago I tore apart a 2 liter engine myself. Using nothing more than the factory manual, a descent tool set, and some mail order machine shop and parts companies, I built one hell of a motor. 2.1 liters, 8.5:1 compression, 48X38 valves, ported and polished, high lift and duration cam, hi rev valve springs, 45mm dual Dellorto carbs, and monza exhaust. I'm recalling from memory, but I think that was about it other than replacing the main and rod bearings of course. Now that I think about it, that was quite a project for a complete novice. But what a motor. A little lumpy at idle but power output was incredible, revved rapidly right up to 6400 rpm (600 higher than stock) and pulled smoothly from 1800. I never had a dyno done, but I estimate it at least 130 and probably a bit more. Ran perfectly for nearly 50,000 miles before my poor baby met with her demise. Not the engine, but the car was damaged in an accident. (Not my fault, I was hit by another car). A very rewarding feeling to know this was done with my own hands. A great motor to work on. Very simple. Memories...

Geoff

My 2.1L with Djet is about 120hp, with lots of mods to get there. Pulls like crazy.

Matt Romanowski

125 HP is pretty easy to get out of a 2 liter, but you need proof of what he has done. I would go for reciepts and specs of the parts - plus set up info.