Chalt

For those of you who own other P-Cars in addition to your 944, how do you think the communities of owners compare?
For instance, I have noticed that the 928 community is very tight knit, like a brotherhood. Another thing going on in the 928 forum that feels different than here is the complexity. It's almost like you need to know sorcery to maintain them, or know a few good sorcerers.
Is there much of that 928 thing going on in other car specific communities?
Here, I feel people are friendly and helpful but it doesn't seem like a fraternity. Less sorcery here for sure.
This may be a stupid question, but it has crossed my mind enough times that I thought I'd see if anyone else has thought about it.

Swenny

Yeah, I feel real special when I have to pay $450 for an OPRV or $250 for plug wires or $100 for a simple screen that goes in the gas tank. The 944/928 takes a large bank account operate. It's more like insanity to own these beasts rather than elitism.

V2Rocket

lots of tech knowledge on the 928 side, but all-too-often a handful of members get into catfights and snide comments like a bunch of middle-school girls....they know who they are.
its not like anything sets them off, they will bitch at each other in a thread about ANY topic. and many 928 folks tend to "take sides" with great loyalty and disregard completely the "other guys'" experience.
i asked a tech question to a friend of mine (928 owner) if he had seen something one vendor had come up with and the response was, "i dont care what [vendor X] does, i only go by what [vendor Y] says".

944 guys are all in the same boat together. we've got a couple of varying degrees of a-holes, myself included, but no "gang fights". we do have retards who justify spending $100k+ on a 944 that they don't drive, but they are few and far between.

Guy

I have a 997, 944 and 928. I wrench on all three myself. I find the 928 forum to be more robust, lots of info over there. The 944 forum is fantastic but it takes some searching on outside resources to get "all the answers" . I think that is simply a testamemt to the other forums that are equally as active in the 944 world.

With all thay said, I enjoy all the forums and the people. Slight differnces between them all but all are a life saver!!

tempest411

The main difference I see between 944 and 928 owners is with the 944 crowd, because the buy-in can be so low, they assume all the parts should be cheap, and the fixes very easy. But this is true of used cars in general, which I always found to be very non-sensical. There are some silly expensive parts on these cars, but when you look at how many are probably sold and the way the free market works, we should proably be greatful we can get all the parts we still can to keep these cars on the road.

Swenny

I have to disagree with your overall statement. I have bought several Porsches and didn't purchase them on the cheap nor did I expect them to be inexpensive to operate. As far as used cars in general, I have an 18 y/o Nissan truck that is ridiculously inexpensive to operate. Parts are abundant and cheap. As far as being grateful for finding parts, it's to the parts manufacturers, Auto manufacturers advantage that the cars are still on the road. Sure, a free market has it's ups and downs. The down is what we pay for over priced replacement parts. This is a hobby playing with Porsche, not a religion. The parts sellers need to be grateful to me for spending my cash with them.

Otto Mechanic

"For those of you who own other P-Cars in addition to your 944, how do you think the communities of owners compare?"

Well, I've found (personal experience as both a 944 and 928 owner), that when I'm working on the 928 I tend to bathe more frequently. I don't know why this happens.

On a more serious note, I expect there are more 928 owners who work on their own cars and so there's probabably a higher percentage of experienced participants in that group even though there's a lower numbr of participants overall. The 928 is a very rare car, even when compared to rare 944s. There's much less technical support for the 928 than the 944, which is why I chose the 944 as my racing platform. 928 owners really have no choice but to become intimately familiar with their cars, 944 owners can limp by with outside help if necessary.

When you're living in Jackson Wyoming with a 928, you either support it yourself or you have it transported on a flatbed to Salt Lake City when it needs service. Not so much with a 944. It's a different world.

Regards,

tempest411

This may sound odd, but in my neck of the woods I see far more 928s about than 944s. I'd say the ratio is about 5x in fact. But on Craiglist, there's no shortage of bucket-944s, that's for sure! Hearing this talk of 928s being such an osoteric vehicle to work on intrigues me though. I always liked them, but there's no room in my life for such an impractical car. My 944 will be my daily driver when I'm done. If it can't get me back and forth to work reliably it's nothing more than a really big paperweight taking up half the garage.

Regarding the economics of our parts, it's simply a numbers game. If there was enough demand the aftermarket would step in to offer us an alternative to some of the higher priced parts on these cars (as with the OPRV). And the numbers of original parts in the supply chain dictate the prices. I don't think Porsche feels much pressure to be thankful we're keeping their older models on the road. It may seem so at times, but only as much as they can spin it as supporting their heritage. They'd really rather us all buy a new model from them.

elgy

One of the differences that I see is that there are several high-end companies and individuals that repair, restore and modify 928s and that share their expertise on the 928 board. Given that the 928 was the Porsche flagship it is logical that some owners are willing to put a lot more money into them them 924/944/968 owners. I think that also explains why many 928 owners get a lot deeper into the maintenance of their cars. Don't get me wrong, there are some very passionate/crazy people on this board, but there are also a lot that pass through, moving on to other things in life. More 928 owners see their cars as long term, even lifelong projects, I think.

hacker-pschorr

It's 100% the same in the 928 world. People buy a $1,500 basket case 928 and figure it will only cost a couple thousand to make it perfect.

I hear it all the time: "I only paid X for the car, why would I pay X + Y to fix it???" Cost of entry has no bearing on cost of ownership.

Well that's [i]you/[i] so good you were educated going in. That doesn't speak for a very large segment of the 944/928 buying market.

Nissan sold more than 108,000 trucks in the year 2000 alone, a truck which shares most parts with trucks from other years which sold almost as many.

8V 944 production totaled 113,070 cars over an eight year period, maybe half are still on the road?

It's a volume game, more vehicles on the road = higher probability certain parts will be purchased. The Nissan's are also newer which means a much higher percentage still on the road in regular use.

Not really, it's easy to feel that way, like the manufacturer should feel lucky we are still buying parts for these old cars. But in reality it's a major investment for Porsche to try and keep every trinket part available for our cars. Only recently did they actually start investing $$$ into the future of our vehicles, and the prices of many reintroduced parts are easily double the "old" price.
People who thought these cars were expensive to maintain over the last 10-20 years are in for a big surprise.

Chris_924s

There are'nt any "Nice older RX7" comments at the gas station when you pull up in a 928/S4 ..

I DO love the "must be nice" comments. Answer- it is very nice. and expensive. and time consuming . and knuckle busting.
I use my tools, not a mechanic-- And have been doing so for well over 20 years of 944 (and variant) ownership

Lets face it,we drive these cars because of their capabilities.-- IT'S how I feel when the CAR performs flawlessly.

I stepped out of the P-Car limelight years ago, and never lost sleep of the "half-an-engine" , "not air-cooled" or "VW Wannabe" debates.
Pride of ownership, and actually driving it are what puts the smile on my face.
Longtime promoter of "You are not what you drive" mentality..


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Chalt

Okay, I have driven a 924, 944, and 928 - never even ridden in a 911. The 928 was an '88 and was my sister's. My impression of my sister's 928 (which I didn't get to drive many times) was that it was heavy and loved the highway. I never got to drive hers on twisty roads.I own now an '86 944 and used to have a '79 924.

So my question is less about wrenching and more about driving experience. How do you feel in each one? What do you love or not love in each?

Guy

My 79 928 drives like a modern touring car. Very refined, quiet on the whole. Yes. It has a heavy feel to it but the ride quality is remarkable for a 40 year old car with original suspension and 72k. The manual trans is the only hint that its not a more modern car.

The 944 feels "spacious" inside and light and small in comparison to the 928. It revs easily and the steering feels so much lighter. Lots of fun to drive. Feels so much smaller in comparison to the 997 or the 928.

My 997 feels more akin to the 928 than my previously owned 964 or 993.

Jfrahm

There are some interesting differences between the communities. I see some vendor tribalism in the 928 crowd, I see little of this with the 944 crowd. However some 928 specific vendors have made an effort to curate parts for the 928 and that's worth something. I also see more openness to alternative parts in the 944 crowd, like using BMW crank sensors, Volvo ignition modules, etc.

In both cases we are seeing more and more people getting one due to always wanting one or just being curious and having a budget to get started. This can be frustrating as it might be pretty common that a cheap example takes 3x the money to get to an OK state than it would have cost to just buy a better starting point. This may be more often true of a 928 but still often the case with a 944.

There does seem to be more action with the 928 Owners Club and national meets, at least from what I have observed. I do not think thee is a 944 national meet anymore? No owners club that I recall.

The "heavy feel" of the 928 IMO is due to the low-boost power steering in most 928s, plus usually a wider front tire. This seems to lead people to believe that the car is heavy, it's not particularly. The stock 928 alignment might also be pretty on-center.

Chris_924s

The 928 was light years ahead, It's a well mannered luxo cruiser reminiscent of the mid to late 2000's, not the 1970's when it launched. I drove a 79 euro automatic- very capable and driveable all day. It was a wild departure to the 928S4GT I spun at Road America...that 928 was , well, beefy.