Trying to start a 931 after 8 years of sitting
12-10-2018, 04:27 PM
#1
Track Day
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Trying to start a 931 after 8 years of sitting
I recently acquired the car, and I’m working to get it running. I put a new battery in it the other day and changed all the fluids. It will turn over after awhile (I don’t want to keep hammering on the starter, but after about 10 tries it will start).
Symptoms:
Thoughts?
- possible head gasket which is causing all the oil to burn?
- I know the turbo uses oil, could it be that?
- Something is up with the fuel delivery… fuel pump? Relay? If so where would those things be?
Some other oddities
- I drained the coolant and tried to replace it, but it will only fill up the reservoir, and it doesn’t go into the radiator. Is there a separate radiator fill cap?
Video 1 (starting and high idle)
http://cloud.heliumdev.com/2e373923c1cd
Video 2 (white smoke pouring out the back)
http://cloud.heliumdev.com/dcfdb840ede7
Symptoms:
- first is when I’m trying to start it, it takes a long time, and needs gas pedal action to FINALLY get it going
- This is making me wonder if the spark plugs aren’t good, or something with the fuel delivery?
- When it does start it will go up to 2500rpm and sit there for about 10-15 seconds
- After that it begins to sputter and eventually die
- After a few seconds of running, LOTS of white smoke comes out the back
- it’s not blue, but it’s also thick and lingers like oil burning (and smells)
- Oil pressure light is on
- I put in probably 3 gallons of fresh gas, but the fuel meter says E, and fuel light is on
Thoughts?
- possible head gasket which is causing all the oil to burn?
- I know the turbo uses oil, could it be that?
- Something is up with the fuel delivery… fuel pump? Relay? If so where would those things be?
Some other oddities
- I drained the coolant and tried to replace it, but it will only fill up the reservoir, and it doesn’t go into the radiator. Is there a separate radiator fill cap?
Video 1 (starting and high idle)
http://cloud.heliumdev.com/2e373923c1cd
Video 2 (white smoke pouring out the back)
http://cloud.heliumdev.com/dcfdb840ede7
12-10-2018, 10:15 PM
#2
I recently acquired the car, and I’m working to get it running. I put a new battery in it the other day and changed all the fluids. It will turn over after awhile (I don’t want to keep hammering on the starter, but after about 10 tries it will start).
Symptoms:
Thoughts?
- possible head gasket which is causing all the oil to burn?
- I know the turbo uses oil, could it be that?
- Something is up with the fuel delivery… fuel pump? Relay? If so where would those things be?
Some other oddities
- I drained the coolant and tried to replace it, but it will only fill up the reservoir, and it doesn’t go into the radiator. Is there a separate radiator fill cap?
Video 1 (starting and high idle)
http://cloud.heliumdev.com/2e373923c1cd
Video 2 (white smoke pouring out the back)
http://cloud.heliumdev.com/dcfdb840ede7
Symptoms:
- first is when I’m trying to start it, it takes a long time, and needs gas pedal action to FINALLY get it going
- This is making me wonder if the spark plugs aren’t good, or something with the fuel delivery?
- When it does start it will go up to 2500rpm and sit there for about 10-15 seconds
- After that it begins to sputter and eventually die
- After a few seconds of running, LOTS of white smoke comes out the back
- it’s not blue, but it’s also thick and lingers like oil burning (and smells)
- Oil pressure light is on
- I put in probably 3 gallons of fresh gas, but the fuel meter says E, and fuel light is on
Thoughts?
- possible head gasket which is causing all the oil to burn?
- I know the turbo uses oil, could it be that?
- Something is up with the fuel delivery… fuel pump? Relay? If so where would those things be?
Some other oddities
- I drained the coolant and tried to replace it, but it will only fill up the reservoir, and it doesn’t go into the radiator. Is there a separate radiator fill cap?
Video 1 (starting and high idle)
http://cloud.heliumdev.com/2e373923c1cd
Video 2 (white smoke pouring out the back)
http://cloud.heliumdev.com/dcfdb840ede7
Not sure what to tell you there. Something like that I would almost sell for parts. You just have no idea what other hundreds of things are broken after you rebuild the engine.
My car is perfect inside and out and I still easily spend a couple grand a year on maintenance and 30 year old broken pieces and parts.
whats the history on the rest of it? How much money are you looking to spend on it and whats the long term purpose of it I guess will help with a better answer.
12-11-2018, 01:06 PM
#3
Track Day
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UPDATE
I got it to run for about 1-2 minutes without white smoke. The smoke was much less, blue, and lingered just for a bit before clearing up. But it sputtered and died after that. I pulled the front plug, and it was totally black, and the threads were oil-y. After it died, it wouldn't get going again no matter how much I tried the starter, which makes me think the head gasket is failed and the plugs are getting caked with carbon & oil, so there's no spark. Another possibility is that the fuel pump(s) are not working (boost bypass?) and when it was running, it was just the gas in the lines, and my new fuel isn't coming in, which caused it to die. I have a feeling it's more related to the head gasket because of the state of the plugs.*
I got it to run for about 1-2 minutes without white smoke. The smoke was much less, blue, and lingered just for a bit before clearing up. But it sputtered and died after that. I pulled the front plug, and it was totally black, and the threads were oil-y. After it died, it wouldn't get going again no matter how much I tried the starter, which makes me think the head gasket is failed and the plugs are getting caked with carbon & oil, so there's no spark. Another possibility is that the fuel pump(s) are not working (boost bypass?) and when it was running, it was just the gas in the lines, and my new fuel isn't coming in, which caused it to die. I have a feeling it's more related to the head gasket because of the state of the plugs.*
12-11-2018, 02:52 PM
#4
Have you done a compression test? If the head gasket is bad, valves don't seal or the rings are stuck you won't get good compression. That might be a start toward diagnosing the problems. If you have poor compression the engine will never work well until that problem is solved. I don't think you should do anything else until you've tried that.
You definitely have some fuel if it ran at all.
If you've already replaced the spark plugs and they are fouled after a brief time running it's possible you have an issue with worn valve guides or seals - or the piston rings are stuck. If you haven't replaced plugs yet and you have good compression, replace the plugs.
Did you drain and clean the gas tank and fuel lines? If not, you should do that before trying to run the car any more. Bad gas can ruin other parts. But I would check compression and determine what's happening with the engine first.
Also change the oil if you haven't yet.
On the radiator - that sounds like a problem as well. I would replace or repair it, but you might want to wait until you have determined why the engine won't start first.
You definitely have some fuel if it ran at all.
If you've already replaced the spark plugs and they are fouled after a brief time running it's possible you have an issue with worn valve guides or seals - or the piston rings are stuck. If you haven't replaced plugs yet and you have good compression, replace the plugs.
Did you drain and clean the gas tank and fuel lines? If not, you should do that before trying to run the car any more. Bad gas can ruin other parts. But I would check compression and determine what's happening with the engine first.
Also change the oil if you haven't yet.
On the radiator - that sounds like a problem as well. I would replace or repair it, but you might want to wait until you have determined why the engine won't start first.
12-13-2018, 04:45 PM
#5
Racer
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Adelaide South Australia'79 5spd twin turbo
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OK, I'd call it a miracle you've got as far as you have.
The CIS injection unit really doesn't like extended periods of no use, neither do the fuel pumps. BUT, clearly they are both working, in a fashion. I would disconnect the 4 injector lines then hard wire the fuel pump so it is constantly pumping (you will now need to deal with the fuel coming out of the injector lines) then I'd take the rubber intake hose off the CIS metering unit and depress the flap, see that the volume of fuel at the injectors increases. When that appears to be operating in a consistent and logical manner (and you are clearly seeing your fresh fuel) return everything to normal fit fresh spark plugs and start the car.
The CIS injection unit really doesn't like extended periods of no use, neither do the fuel pumps. BUT, clearly they are both working, in a fashion. I would disconnect the 4 injector lines then hard wire the fuel pump so it is constantly pumping (you will now need to deal with the fuel coming out of the injector lines) then I'd take the rubber intake hose off the CIS metering unit and depress the flap, see that the volume of fuel at the injectors increases. When that appears to be operating in a consistent and logical manner (and you are clearly seeing your fresh fuel) return everything to normal fit fresh spark plugs and start the car.