How to improve the 944s performance - no turbos or swaps
02-13-2021, 10:12 PM
#16
Race Car
The S is way way overbuilt
But sucks for low end
It has so much potential, especially in the hands of say, Michael Mount.
It is an incredible creation.
Did you know the primary tube (the extractor that bolts to the exhaust port) is 1/16" larger dia than the 2.5 8v? And the secondary pipe is also 1/16" larger. I always wondered if the S2 was the same size.
There are a lot of days when I think I'd be most happy with a regular 944 (not an outlaw).
When choosing a cam, you might be better off choosing a stage 1 or 2 rather than a real monster because cams change the rpm range to favor your conditions, so see where they breathe best. Sounds like you want to blip the throttle and move.
Nitrous might be a legitimate consideration & also the cleanest approach.
But sucks for low end
It has so much potential, especially in the hands of say, Michael Mount.
It is an incredible creation.
Did you know the primary tube (the extractor that bolts to the exhaust port) is 1/16" larger dia than the 2.5 8v? And the secondary pipe is also 1/16" larger. I always wondered if the S2 was the same size.
There are a lot of days when I think I'd be most happy with a regular 944 (not an outlaw).
When choosing a cam, you might be better off choosing a stage 1 or 2 rather than a real monster because cams change the rpm range to favor your conditions, so see where they breathe best. Sounds like you want to blip the throttle and move.
Nitrous might be a legitimate consideration & also the cleanest approach.
Last edited by Noahs944; 02-13-2021 at 10:14 PM.
02-14-2021, 01:26 AM
#17
I have done some searching and I know that there's a limit to the power I can get from my 1987 944s.
I don't really want a lot more power, just a bit more drama and excitement.
I had a 76 911 and when it hit 4,000rpm or so, it just took off.
It's not worth going for a turbo, as we have a 911 and an M4, if we want to go faster. It's all about the fun factor.
I read that the 944s is supposed to be a bit like that - mine's very linear in power delivery - a bit slow really. It's done 124,000 miles, so that could be part of it
Here's what I am thinking:
1. The top-end needs a rebuild. I read that many 944s have worn valve guides and this drops the power down by about 40 hp.
2. If I am going to rebuild the top end, then I may as well put some decent cams in it, with some more aggression.
3. Upgrade to the S2 MAF / throttle body. Or go for a newer induction & DME.
4. Lower diff ratio. Where I live, in Australia, you can't speed, or your car gets impounded, so getting to 60 and not slowing down for corners, is about all we can do.
If I could get 200 at the wheels, that would be great. I am thinking it's going to cost about $US8k.
I saw that another member said he got 198 at the wheels with basically just cams.
I have looked at selling and getting a S2, which is the logical thing to do. But, good S2's with under 150,000 miles are a bit hard to find around here.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
I don't really want a lot more power, just a bit more drama and excitement.
I had a 76 911 and when it hit 4,000rpm or so, it just took off.
It's not worth going for a turbo, as we have a 911 and an M4, if we want to go faster. It's all about the fun factor.
I read that the 944s is supposed to be a bit like that - mine's very linear in power delivery - a bit slow really. It's done 124,000 miles, so that could be part of it
Here's what I am thinking:
1. The top-end needs a rebuild. I read that many 944s have worn valve guides and this drops the power down by about 40 hp.
2. If I am going to rebuild the top end, then I may as well put some decent cams in it, with some more aggression.
3. Upgrade to the S2 MAF / throttle body. Or go for a newer induction & DME.
4. Lower diff ratio. Where I live, in Australia, you can't speed, or your car gets impounded, so getting to 60 and not slowing down for corners, is about all we can do.
If I could get 200 at the wheels, that would be great. I am thinking it's going to cost about $US8k.
I saw that another member said he got 198 at the wheels with basically just cams.
I have looked at selling and getting a S2, which is the logical thing to do. But, good S2's with under 150,000 miles are a bit hard to find around here.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
I had a 944S for a few years and actually quite liked the car and the engine, I gave my car to rogue tuning for a few weeks so he could develop a MAF for the 16v cars and then got to run it on the street for quite a while. It was worth about 10hp on the dyno at the rear wheels with some changes in the DME to optimize it. That said... This is not the path for this car. You want VEMS, cams and a MAF along with a wideband so you can properly tune the car. There is a guy out of Estonia, who is here on the forums, that makes them as a plug and play kit, V2 had that in his car IIRC and it made a nice improvement. You can even have it made in the original DME case to disguise it a bit if you want. RS barn has cams for you.
If you get these things and get it on a dyno to tune it correctly you can likely hit your power number.
http://www.vems.ee/vemspnp/
http://www.rsbarn.com/catalog/index....roducts_id=194
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Aivar88 (02-25-2021)
02-19-2021, 10:06 PM
#19
944s build
So speaking from another pe4spective.
I took over a build of a customer. He had headaches and gave up but it will hopefully be pretty bullet proof not sure of numbers though.
stock motor built.
102mm darton sleeves. Reground cams. New custom wossners. Everything else redone.
it pumps about 250psi compression
again I didn't start this build. It currently runs lean.. not getting enough fuel. Maxed our adjustable regulator. Using fqs managed to get it down. But still high 14s. On the wideband.
I'm guessing this thing will.make closer to 200.
it is now more like a 2.6L add a 3L crank for stroke and you get a 2.9L more or less.
wasn't cheap but it's not pretty bulletproof. When the snow is gone I plan to dial it in and figure out the running lean. Deleting the afm might be chance. Or stand alone.. will depend on what's within the budget. I don't plan on keeping the car so don't want to Invest too much more.
but it can be found..
I took over a build of a customer. He had headaches and gave up but it will hopefully be pretty bullet proof not sure of numbers though.
stock motor built.
102mm darton sleeves. Reground cams. New custom wossners. Everything else redone.
it pumps about 250psi compression
again I didn't start this build. It currently runs lean.. not getting enough fuel. Maxed our adjustable regulator. Using fqs managed to get it down. But still high 14s. On the wideband.
I'm guessing this thing will.make closer to 200.
it is now more like a 2.6L add a 3L crank for stroke and you get a 2.9L more or less.
wasn't cheap but it's not pretty bulletproof. When the snow is gone I plan to dial it in and figure out the running lean. Deleting the afm might be chance. Or stand alone.. will depend on what's within the budget. I don't plan on keeping the car so don't want to Invest too much more.
but it can be found..
02-19-2021, 10:15 PM
#20
Rainman
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Tim-- 944S runs near stoich at pretty much all throttle positions and only goes below 14 at WOT, by design for emissions. That's a big reason they feel kind of weak. Adding fuel should make it much more responsive.
02-20-2021, 12:33 AM
#21
Drifting
There's an off the shelf version of megasquirt PNP for the S as well. I'd do that first and add a light weight flywheel next time you're in there for the clutch. Not much more speed, but makes the engine a bit faster to blip etc which I think is pretty fun. New seats, new steering wheel, a little stiffer and lower suspension also make a car feel faster and more fun without actually adding to the risk of speeding tickets.
02-20-2021, 01:05 PM
#22
Racer
Before any of the above mentioned mods, i would put on the engine the throttle response cam . Makes the car feel faster and very cheap and simple to install
https://www.only944.com/partscatalog...leresponsecam/
https://www.only944.com/partscatalog...leresponsecam/
02-20-2021, 01:09 PM
#23
Rainman
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
^^ sounds like (but not certain) that OP has a 944S 16 valver - which already has a (nearly) direct 1:1 throttle cam.
the throttle response cam linked helps the 8-valve models with their stock very-progressive throttle cam giving slow response.
the throttle response cam linked helps the 8-valve models with their stock very-progressive throttle cam giving slow response.
02-22-2021, 02:44 PM
#26
Race Car
I would personally do the 1) MSPNP (Go MAP or MAF), 2) Full Exhaust, 3) Cam and 4) Flywheel. You should see reasonable gains with these, this was the path I was going to take with my S before the V8 fun. I think with those mods you will be close to your target, maybe 190-200whp. Which the S is lighter than the S2 so if you can get in that ballpark you will be a pretty quick car. Also you can always make your car lighter for free-cheap, I pulled out close to 150-200lbs and could feel a minor difference.
02-22-2021, 06:06 PM
#27
Intermediate
Thread Starter
There's an off the shelf version of megasquirt PNP for the S as well. I'd do that first and add a light weight flywheel next time you're in there for the clutch. Not much more speed, but makes the engine a bit faster to blip etc which I think is pretty fun. New seats, new steering wheel, a little stiffer and lower suspension also make a car feel faster and more fun without actually adding to the risk of speeding tickets.
The seats look in good condition, but the driver's seat is quite worn down, so needs the foam padding replaced.
Is it better to go for after-market race type seats or just reupholster the original ones?
The car is a 3 owner in very original condition, but with slightly high mileage, 124k - so I am torn keeping it original vs mods.
02-23-2021, 12:17 PM
#28
Drifting
Sounds like an interesting plan.
The seats look in good condition, but the driver's seat is quite worn down, so needs the foam padding replaced.
Is it better to go for after-market race type seats or just reupholster the original ones?
The car is a 3 owner in very original condition, but with slightly high mileage, 124k - so I am torn keeping it original vs mods.
The seats look in good condition, but the driver's seat is quite worn down, so needs the foam padding replaced.
Is it better to go for after-market race type seats or just reupholster the original ones?
The car is a 3 owner in very original condition, but with slightly high mileage, 124k - so I am torn keeping it original vs mods.