rludlamjr

Hi, I’m working on my first timing belt / balance belt / water pump change and while I purchased a flywheel lock I am stuck trying to get the large 19mm bolts off to remove the starter and install the lock. So a couple of questions:

1. is there another alternative that would work to lock the flywheel? Eg, bracing a wrench on the 24mm nut that turns the engine? Is this possible or a bad idea?

2. what are the ramifications to not locking the flywheel? I am not a very experienced mechanic yet so this job is tough for me - I understand locking the flywheel makes the job easier, would it be doable for me to proceed without the lock?

3. will certainly appreciate any arcane suggestions to remove the bolts. Have been liberally using pb blaster to no avail.

thanks!
roland

T&T Racing

Can you show photo and explain why the longer starter bolt is stuck. Has the shorter bolt been removed? If so, reinstal but do not tighten to better center the starter. Then maybe can wiggle the long bolt out first

if you are not planning to replace the front crankshaft oil seal, then a flywheel is not essential to use. Just make sure #1 cylinder is at TDC by check thru the bell housing openings when reinstalling new timing belt. If the crankshaft has rotated, the return by using a wrench on the crankshaft bolt

rludlamjr

Hey, thanks for the quick reply! Actually, both bolts are stuck - just frozen from corrosion I’m assuming and I can’t turn them.

I was only intending on doing balance belt, timing belt, rollers, water pump and upper balance shaft seals this time around - if that’s the case it sounds like it should be possible for me to go ahead without the lock, as long as I am careful to keep resetting to TDC during the process?

pfarah7

An impact gun may be in your future if those bolts won't loosen...

Actually, space liberal amounts of PB Blaster and hit the bolt heads with a hammer (not too hard) to try and shock them. And get a longer breaker bar...

Zirconocene

I agree that if you're just starting out with wrenching on your car, don't take the chance of screwing up the timing.

It's not glamorous work but figuring out how to undo stuck bolts from tight quarters will pay dividends for you down the road. I know spring is right around the corner (or maybe already there, wherever you live) but I would not gamble with piston movement when you're replacing the timing belt. Figure out how to get the starter off and then use the flywheel lock. I can nearly guarantee it'll bring you peace of mind when you have to go chase something else down that's wrong with the car, later on.

I like Kroil, but as you can see above, PB Blaster has its adherents.

Good luck

rludlamjr

Yes, makes sense - I appreciate the input! I may try to get my impact down there but I’m guessing there isn’t enough room to get it seated properly. A longer breaker bar is an option if I can get the car up a little higher.

for educational purposes, what would the possible issues be for performing the work without the flywheel locked? I understand it needs to be aligned but would love to better understand the problems that not having it locked could cause. Thanks again!

Zirconocene

I'm not speaking as an expert here, by any means, but I think that the risk comes in trying to adjust things (meaning the crank, and everything that it moves, and the camshaft, and everything that it/they move) independently. So, if your timing gets sort of off of where it should be and you start to adjust the crank or the cam independently, it's very easy to imagine that you're going to run valves into piston heads. You might get away with it in a very, very small window, but the valves are sort of fragile things and easy to bend or break. Additionally, depending on how you go about doing things, you'll end up using a non-insignificant amount of force to turn either the crank or the cam gear. It may be different for you, but I've never had great luck with precision movements at the kinds of forces that are required. Additionally, there are parts of the timing sequence where crank movement gets very easy relative to other parts of the sequence and it's very hard to know where that's going to be so it can be the case that, suddenly, the force required to move something goes way down and you end up with a lot more movement than intended.

On the 16V cars that I've worked on, reassembly of the camshafts into the tower is done with the crank at a particular location and then lowering the camshafts down directly onto the lifters, with the cams set at the right position. There is no rotation in this work and it's because a little bit of movement, depending on where the lobes are on the camshaft, can cause significant movement of the lifter and valve. Pistons at TDC (or TC, I guess) and small tolerances in the engine make for small margins of error.

I don't know if that all made sense, but it's how I think about it.

Cheers

rludlamjr

Yes, that makes perfect sense - thank you for the detailed explanation! I’ll keep working on the bolts and see if I can get them off before I go any further!

75ohm

Where are you located in the world? Maybe another 944 wrench can take a look with you?

944Time

I would recommend getting the 19mm bolts off. You might have to change the starter some day!
Or the clutch slave cylinder. You have to remove the starter to get to it.

When I had a tight starter bolt I used a jack against the end of my 19mm wrench.

StoogeMoe

You don’t need a flywheel lock unless you need to remove the crank pulley. If you’re doing the water pump, then you’ll need to do that. If you think the starter bolts are hard, wait until you try to get that loose!

MAGK944

Heat and shock will get them loose, buy a handheld torch and use a hammer. If corrosion is an issue on this big bolts you most certainly will have other issues under the belt covers and be prepared to extract a couple of studs there. It’s also a good time to do all the foes so I would advise you get that starter off and the lock in place before you do all that.

Stephen03

Just put a wrench on it and get another jack and Jack up the wrench. Spray them down and heat them up if necessary. Put another jack stand or a wheel under the engine incase you knock the car off the original jack.

rludlamjr

Thanks for these great suggestions - definitely lots to try and I know I need to learn and get better at this simple stuff.

I’m up in northern Vermont if anyone ever wants to get together to wrench!

cheers!

Dan Martinic

Lying on your back, feet out the front, yes... it's entirely possible, so I'll say it: lefty loosey, righty tighty--both *facing* the head

Hey, it's happened to all of us