Going To Court Tommorow
06-02-2004, 03:00 AM
#16
Like everyone elso said, dress well, show respect, yada yada yada even though most govt employees dont deserve our respect.
Kiss their asses and hope to come out of it as best you can. The most important thing to learn is not to get caught in the first place.
1. Speeding at night is a bad idea unless you can really spot the headlights and taillights of the cop cars in your area and it is impossible to spot a speed trap where the cop car has his lights off.
2. You have to "grow eyes in the back of your head". Most cops will come up behind you and catch you off gaurd. While "cruising" around Atlanta, probably 80% of my visual scanning is done in the rear view mirrors.
3. An empty highway may seem like an opportune time to speed because you are the only one there and the only one that could possibly be hurt but you are also the only one for a cop to focus on!
4. Radar and laser detectors suck! I have many friends with detectors that constantly get tickets because they give a false sense of security. No electronic device can beat paying attention. Example: If you are cresting a hill on an interstate or coming around a corner, slow down.
There are many other things but that is all I feel like writing about now.
Remember kids, speeding does'nt kill. Bad drivers and crappy cars with bad drivers kill. A good driver in a good Porsche is much safer at 120mph than a normal driver in a Grand Am at 70mph.
Kiss their asses and hope to come out of it as best you can. The most important thing to learn is not to get caught in the first place.
1. Speeding at night is a bad idea unless you can really spot the headlights and taillights of the cop cars in your area and it is impossible to spot a speed trap where the cop car has his lights off.
2. You have to "grow eyes in the back of your head". Most cops will come up behind you and catch you off gaurd. While "cruising" around Atlanta, probably 80% of my visual scanning is done in the rear view mirrors.
3. An empty highway may seem like an opportune time to speed because you are the only one there and the only one that could possibly be hurt but you are also the only one for a cop to focus on!
4. Radar and laser detectors suck! I have many friends with detectors that constantly get tickets because they give a false sense of security. No electronic device can beat paying attention. Example: If you are cresting a hill on an interstate or coming around a corner, slow down.
There are many other things but that is all I feel like writing about now.
Remember kids, speeding does'nt kill. Bad drivers and crappy cars with bad drivers kill. A good driver in a good Porsche is much safer at 120mph than a normal driver in a Grand Am at 70mph.
06-02-2004, 08:54 AM
#17
Instructor
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Bradenton, FL
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh.. I forgot to add..
Why don't you go down to the courthouse and ask to "Sit in" on a day's worth of plea hearings and pretrial hearings? That'll get you a better idea of what you're up against.
you can sometimes get a seat in the Juror box for a better view.
I've always found judges to be very fair and honest people that WILL let you get off on a lesser charge if you're willing in the slightest to defend yourself.
most people don't defend themselves... "oh.. its just a ticket.. just give up" kinda' attitude.
if you go.. you'll see how many "Guilty" pleas will be entered. You'll see people go straight to jail on petty misdemeanors too... ONLY because they plead guilty instead of "Not Guilty" at their first hearing and didn't make a deal with the prosecutor.
But if you go.. you'll see. you'll see how many people resist arrest, modify their license plates and get DUI's with a hangover in the courtroom... its not boring at all
Why don't you go down to the courthouse and ask to "Sit in" on a day's worth of plea hearings and pretrial hearings? That'll get you a better idea of what you're up against.
you can sometimes get a seat in the Juror box for a better view.
I've always found judges to be very fair and honest people that WILL let you get off on a lesser charge if you're willing in the slightest to defend yourself.
most people don't defend themselves... "oh.. its just a ticket.. just give up" kinda' attitude.
if you go.. you'll see how many "Guilty" pleas will be entered. You'll see people go straight to jail on petty misdemeanors too... ONLY because they plead guilty instead of "Not Guilty" at their first hearing and didn't make a deal with the prosecutor.
But if you go.. you'll see. you'll see how many people resist arrest, modify their license plates and get DUI's with a hangover in the courtroom... its not boring at all
06-02-2004, 09:21 AM
#18
Site Sponsor
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: A great big building in the woods, FL.
Posts: 6,527
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
2 Posts
Get a traffic lawyer. He will take care of it for you. It may cost you $100 up front but its better than having a ticket on your record.
Most cases you don't even have to show up to court... He just goes in your place and you go about your every day life.
Most cases you don't even have to show up to court... He just goes in your place and you go about your every day life.
06-02-2004, 12:36 PM
#19
Drifting
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Tucson AZ, Dallas Tx sometimes
Posts: 2,966
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Plead not guilty. You will then eather have to bargan or go to trial. in that time between pleading and trial go to Borders Books and buy a book on traffic ticket defense. ($20) Well worth it. When/if you go to trial it is your job to prove to the judge that 1. you were driving in a "wise and prudent" manner, testing your vehicle after mechanical work BEFORE getting onto a controled access road. 2. the officer has no crdibility, be careful with this one, ask him about your car (color, model, any other distinguishing things) what were the road and weather conditions....the date. all of this shows the judge that the officer is not as credible as you are. 3. what is the road like, is is safe to do 57 on that road. where is there signs posting the speed limit (pictures are good)
The best bet would be to do some reading on traffic ticket defense. And follow everyone elses advice be polite, well spoken, prepared and dress nice. Don't be arogant.
Sean
The best bet would be to do some reading on traffic ticket defense. And follow everyone elses advice be polite, well spoken, prepared and dress nice. Don't be arogant.
Sean
06-02-2004, 03:23 PM
#20
Since we are all giving bad advice here today, here's mine (copied from a thread I posted on a while ago):
I am a veteran of many traffic citations and I have beaten a fair number of them... I am not an attorney, so take all this for what its worth.
Rule number 1: Do NOT admit you were speeding to ANYONE.
Rule number 2: Buy a Valentine One radar detector. Seriously, its the absolute best money you can spend defending yourself against traffic citations.
Your best bet is to get there as early as you can, talk with the receptionist at the Court Clerk's office (not the prosecutor, at least not yet) and see if they grant "Ajudicated Decisions" in that county. If they do, pay the fine and/or take the class and keep your nose clean for the prescribed period of time, and you're done.
If the Court Clerk's office can't take care of you, they will usually refer you to the Prosecutor's office. The outcome here will depend on the size of the municipality and how busy the Prosecutor is. Small is bad in this case, ESPECIALLY if you don't live there (don't ask me how I know). If the Prosecutor is swamped with cases, they may cut a deal with you, if you are straight them and DON'T BS them! Don't say anything about the mistakes on the ticket to the prosecutor, as that will likely rile him up and make him that much more determined to have fun with you in Court, because they will be convinced that they can make you look like a fool to the Judge. Your best guess is to not admit to speeding or any infraction, but that you want to expedite the case and that your goal is to avoid insurance problems. If they are sympathetic, then pay your fine and go home.
If you strike out with the prosecutor, you have a couple of options. You can and SHOULD fight the ticket, but you would be better off trying to get a postponement. I would do this by calling the Court and ask for a postponement. If they ask why, don't lie, just tell them that you need more time to prepare your case. Assuming they grant a postponement (which they always have for me), then you need to try to get it scheduled on a day that the officer won't be available, if possible. There are a couple of ways to do this, but don't just call the station and ask. As long as they don't set the court date on the same weekday as the original court date, you stand a fair chance of catching the police officer out on th eroad, rather than near the court house. If the officer doesn't show up, you automatically win 90% of the time (I had the Court grant a postponement to the Prosecutor once when the Officer didn't show up! I still beat the ticket tho).
If you are serious about fighting the ticket, you need an attorney to plead your case for you, as I have yet to see a Judge be impressed by a defendant playing "Perry Mason". Judges don't want to hear that they should let you go because the officer screwed up while writing the citation, if you are the one pointing it out. If an attorney points discrepancies out, it seldom causes problems, and even if it does, the Judge will be less inclined to take it out on you. Pity the fool that decides to represent themselves and starts objecting to the officer referring to their notes on the stand, or asking about radar certifications/training and all the other questions that the do-it-yourself webs sites and book suggest you try. Trust me, you DON"T want to do it.
If, after reading all this, you are in court and the officer shows up and you don't have an attorney, you are pretty much left to the mercy of the Court, and how you conduct yourself will determine the outcome. Dress up for the appearance (preferably a suit and tie), be VERY polite, don't admit anything, don't embellish, be factual and to the point, and ALWAYS address the Judge as "Your Honor". If you don't admit to the infraction and are nice about it, but convince the Judge you are sincere, they may just dismiss it, give you are warning to be careful or whatnot. Its generally a "cops word against yours" in this situation, and cops have been known to be wrong too, altho if you show any attitude at all, the Judge will rule against you.
If you lose, don't make a scene, pay your fine and know that you have done everything that you can, and get on with your life.
I won't say how many times I have had to defend myself, since this is a public forum, but I will tell you that I have only had one citation that I couldn't get dismissed in the last 8 years. I will also say that I haven't received ANY citations since buying my Valentine One, and I typically travel/drive more than 100,000 miles a year.
I am a veteran of many traffic citations and I have beaten a fair number of them... I am not an attorney, so take all this for what its worth.
Rule number 1: Do NOT admit you were speeding to ANYONE.
Rule number 2: Buy a Valentine One radar detector. Seriously, its the absolute best money you can spend defending yourself against traffic citations.
Your best bet is to get there as early as you can, talk with the receptionist at the Court Clerk's office (not the prosecutor, at least not yet) and see if they grant "Ajudicated Decisions" in that county. If they do, pay the fine and/or take the class and keep your nose clean for the prescribed period of time, and you're done.
If the Court Clerk's office can't take care of you, they will usually refer you to the Prosecutor's office. The outcome here will depend on the size of the municipality and how busy the Prosecutor is. Small is bad in this case, ESPECIALLY if you don't live there (don't ask me how I know). If the Prosecutor is swamped with cases, they may cut a deal with you, if you are straight them and DON'T BS them! Don't say anything about the mistakes on the ticket to the prosecutor, as that will likely rile him up and make him that much more determined to have fun with you in Court, because they will be convinced that they can make you look like a fool to the Judge. Your best guess is to not admit to speeding or any infraction, but that you want to expedite the case and that your goal is to avoid insurance problems. If they are sympathetic, then pay your fine and go home.
If you strike out with the prosecutor, you have a couple of options. You can and SHOULD fight the ticket, but you would be better off trying to get a postponement. I would do this by calling the Court and ask for a postponement. If they ask why, don't lie, just tell them that you need more time to prepare your case. Assuming they grant a postponement (which they always have for me), then you need to try to get it scheduled on a day that the officer won't be available, if possible. There are a couple of ways to do this, but don't just call the station and ask. As long as they don't set the court date on the same weekday as the original court date, you stand a fair chance of catching the police officer out on th eroad, rather than near the court house. If the officer doesn't show up, you automatically win 90% of the time (I had the Court grant a postponement to the Prosecutor once when the Officer didn't show up! I still beat the ticket tho).
If you are serious about fighting the ticket, you need an attorney to plead your case for you, as I have yet to see a Judge be impressed by a defendant playing "Perry Mason". Judges don't want to hear that they should let you go because the officer screwed up while writing the citation, if you are the one pointing it out. If an attorney points discrepancies out, it seldom causes problems, and even if it does, the Judge will be less inclined to take it out on you. Pity the fool that decides to represent themselves and starts objecting to the officer referring to their notes on the stand, or asking about radar certifications/training and all the other questions that the do-it-yourself webs sites and book suggest you try. Trust me, you DON"T want to do it.
If, after reading all this, you are in court and the officer shows up and you don't have an attorney, you are pretty much left to the mercy of the Court, and how you conduct yourself will determine the outcome. Dress up for the appearance (preferably a suit and tie), be VERY polite, don't admit anything, don't embellish, be factual and to the point, and ALWAYS address the Judge as "Your Honor". If you don't admit to the infraction and are nice about it, but convince the Judge you are sincere, they may just dismiss it, give you are warning to be careful or whatnot. Its generally a "cops word against yours" in this situation, and cops have been known to be wrong too, altho if you show any attitude at all, the Judge will rule against you.
If you lose, don't make a scene, pay your fine and know that you have done everything that you can, and get on with your life.
I won't say how many times I have had to defend myself, since this is a public forum, but I will tell you that I have only had one citation that I couldn't get dismissed in the last 8 years. I will also say that I haven't received ANY citations since buying my Valentine One, and I typically travel/drive more than 100,000 miles a year.
06-02-2004, 04:40 PM
#21
Three Wheelin'
Originally posted by 930 under Restoration
Remember kids, speeding does'nt kill. Bad drivers and crappy cars with bad drivers kill. A good driver in a good Porsche is much safer at 120mph than a normal driver in a Grand Am at 70mph.
Remember kids, speeding does'nt kill. Bad drivers and crappy cars with bad drivers kill. A good driver in a good Porsche is much safer at 120mph than a normal driver in a Grand Am at 70mph.
06-02-2004, 04:46 PM
#22
Thinking outside da' bun...
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Then again a good driver in a good Porsche is much safer at 70mph than 120mph.
06-02-2004, 05:00 PM
#23
Thinking outside da' bun...
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
sh944 I hear what you are saying but unless you are in court for potential more serious offenses like reckless driving, DWI, or losing your license from repeated speeding tickets, I dont see lugging a lawyer into traffic court being a wise move. Why pay your lawyer $175/hr to fight a $105 ticket. We havent even covered court costs yet. I think a lawyer if the last thing you want to get involved. It would be working backwards. I think lawyers have better things to do besides getting some guy off on a $95 ticket hes just too cheap to pay.
I hate to break it all to you, but the cheapest way to "fight" tickets is to actually pay them. Send in a check and be done with it. I completely understand the thrill of putting the system on trial, but all of this jockeying around and other stuff to establish a defense is like trying to kill an ant with a sledgehammer. Just kill it with a flyswatter. Theres no such thing as "deader".
99.9% of the time, if you mail your ticket in with check attached, you will be better off for it if you arent a habitual speeder. I just see absolutely no sense in wasting several hours of your free time over it. As I said before, by the time you get done with it, even if they've let you off, you've still paid more for it than the ticket itself in time and effort. And if your free time isnt worth a decent wage, well, theres just no talking to you.
I'll end it with this: 99.5% of the time when an officer writes you a ticket, you were guilty. You can argue all you want, but the fact is you were pushing your luck. Even if the officer is picking on you for a burnt out taillight. It happens. Its part of the cost of driving. But you dont let the small **** get to you and you carry on (and fix your tailight).
I think traffic cops get a bad rap. Sure sometimes a smokey can be annoying but if people knew how to drive, their need would be minimal. Im firmly convinced 85% of Americans shouldhave their license revoked.
Anyway, my 3 cents. You can now call me a moron.
I hate to break it all to you, but the cheapest way to "fight" tickets is to actually pay them. Send in a check and be done with it. I completely understand the thrill of putting the system on trial, but all of this jockeying around and other stuff to establish a defense is like trying to kill an ant with a sledgehammer. Just kill it with a flyswatter. Theres no such thing as "deader".
99.9% of the time, if you mail your ticket in with check attached, you will be better off for it if you arent a habitual speeder. I just see absolutely no sense in wasting several hours of your free time over it. As I said before, by the time you get done with it, even if they've let you off, you've still paid more for it than the ticket itself in time and effort. And if your free time isnt worth a decent wage, well, theres just no talking to you.
I'll end it with this: 99.5% of the time when an officer writes you a ticket, you were guilty. You can argue all you want, but the fact is you were pushing your luck. Even if the officer is picking on you for a burnt out taillight. It happens. Its part of the cost of driving. But you dont let the small **** get to you and you carry on (and fix your tailight).
I think traffic cops get a bad rap. Sure sometimes a smokey can be annoying but if people knew how to drive, their need would be minimal. Im firmly convinced 85% of Americans shouldhave their license revoked.
Anyway, my 3 cents. You can now call me a moron.
06-02-2004, 05:01 PM
#24
Racer
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: San Pedro, Calif.
Posts: 480
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by 951guy
i got 2 80mph tickets in week @ 70mph freeway max speed.. i've always thought that running at that speed was fine as long as you dont go beyond 85 ...im goin to court twice for this.. ask for payment in installation, go to traffic school and do community service.. i have no possible escape i guess
i got 2 80mph tickets in week @ 70mph freeway max speed.. i've always thought that running at that speed was fine as long as you dont go beyond 85 ...im goin to court twice for this.. ask for payment in installation, go to traffic school and do community service.. i have no possible escape i guess
06-02-2004, 05:11 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
Originally posted by 930 under Restoration
Like everyone elso said, dress well, show respect, yada yada yada even though most govt employees dont deserve our respect.
Kiss their asses and hope to come out of it as best you can. The most important thing to learn is not to get caught in the first place.
1. Speeding at night is a bad idea unless you can really spot the headlights and taillights of the cop cars in your area and it is impossible to spot a speed trap where the cop car has his lights off.
2. You have to "grow eyes in the back of your head". Most cops will come up behind you and catch you off gaurd. While "cruising" around Atlanta, probably 80% of my visual scanning is done in the rear view mirrors.
3. An empty highway may seem like an opportune time to speed because you are the only one there and the only one that could possibly be hurt but you are also the only one for a cop to focus on!
4. Radar and laser detectors suck! I have many friends with detectors that constantly get tickets because they give a false sense of security. No electronic device can beat paying attention. Example: If you are cresting a hill on an interstate or coming around a corner, slow down.
There are many other things but that is all I feel like writing about now.
Remember kids, speeding does'nt kill. Bad drivers and crappy cars with bad drivers kill. A good driver in a good Porsche is much safer at 120mph than a normal driver in a Grand Am at 70mph.
Like everyone elso said, dress well, show respect, yada yada yada even though most govt employees dont deserve our respect.
Kiss their asses and hope to come out of it as best you can. The most important thing to learn is not to get caught in the first place.
1. Speeding at night is a bad idea unless you can really spot the headlights and taillights of the cop cars in your area and it is impossible to spot a speed trap where the cop car has his lights off.
2. You have to "grow eyes in the back of your head". Most cops will come up behind you and catch you off gaurd. While "cruising" around Atlanta, probably 80% of my visual scanning is done in the rear view mirrors.
3. An empty highway may seem like an opportune time to speed because you are the only one there and the only one that could possibly be hurt but you are also the only one for a cop to focus on!
4. Radar and laser detectors suck! I have many friends with detectors that constantly get tickets because they give a false sense of security. No electronic device can beat paying attention. Example: If you are cresting a hill on an interstate or coming around a corner, slow down.
There are many other things but that is all I feel like writing about now.
Remember kids, speeding does'nt kill. Bad drivers and crappy cars with bad drivers kill. A good driver in a good Porsche is much safer at 120mph than a normal driver in a Grand Am at 70mph.
i thought they by law had to have parking lights on if setting speed trap at night
06-02-2004, 06:43 PM
#26
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Lancaster, MA & RPI
Posts: 995
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Apparently today was just a hearing, so I have a trial before a judge on July 26th. Thanks for the advice everyone, I'm sure it will help when I have to go again.
Thanks!
Conor
Thanks!
Conor
06-02-2004, 07:24 PM
#27
Site Sponsor
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: A great big building in the woods, FL.
Posts: 6,527
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
2 Posts
Originally posted by UDPride
I hate to break it all to you, but the cheapest way to "fight" tickets is to actually pay them. Send in a check and be done with it.
I hate to break it all to you, but the cheapest way to "fight" tickets is to actually pay them. Send in a check and be done with it.
06-02-2004, 08:17 PM
#28
Thinking outside da' bun...
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
OK I'll try to clarify. Bear with me on this.
Spend 10hrs farting around on the weekend and a couple days during the week establishing your defense.
At $35/hr which is low-balling a semi-professional wage by probably half, thats $350 of your time spent right there. Add a lawyer at $200/hr. If a lawyer is on the toilet even thinking of you, he will bill you. Just spending an hour in court is billable time win or lose. Theres $200 right there.
You could have $1000 wrapped up into a traffic ticket that will cost you $105 and raise your insurance $135 a half. And remember, this isnt realistic. the real cost is probably closer to $2500. You cant get your lawyer to send out a letter on his letterhead for under $300. Our company has been in so many lawsuits its ridiculous (never a case lost mind you). Its not uncommon to spend $80 grand fighting a case for $80 grand. Anymore we simply go to court to break even after attorney fees and protect our reputation. Im not sure personal driving reputation is quite the same thing.
The most important commodity and most expensive is time. Your time. Personally, even if they raised my insurance, its not worth an ounce of my time to fight it. Spend the same amount of time by putting your money to work for you and youll come out further ahead. If you are going to spend money, make sure you spend money to make money -- and if you arent, at least spend it on lifestyle. The courts get enough of our money as it is.
Theres no reason to jump over a dollar to save a dime.
Now, if we're talking pure satisfaction in beating the system at its game, that an entirely different matter and one you cannot quantify with dollar signs. If that joy alone is worth all the effort, then I say God Bless.
Example:
You get caught doing 77 in a 55. Local jurisdiction says thats reckless driving so you have to appear no matter what. Ticket is written for $120. If found guity your points go up and premiums on your insurance go up 15% a half. You currently pay $800 a half ($1600 which is incredibly high unless you are 16 but we'll roll with it for demonstrative purposes - if you are 16 no lawyer will bother with you anyway).
You spend 6hrs of your own time preparing a strategy, making phone calls, getting a hold of your lawyer, taking photos, doing some research on the Net, surfing Rennlist, etc etc.
At $40/hr that just cost you $240 in time when you could have been doing something else a hell of a lot more enjoyable like banging your neighbors girlfriend. Whatever it may be. I dont care. Point is, theres a million better things you can be doing -- some of which had you invested that $240 youd have your money making money.
You go to Krogers and spend $50 on props. Posterboard, pens, pencils, you make a Powerpoint presentation and print it out on nice photo paper. You really try to show the judge you mean business.
You call your lawyer. He spends 4hrs fighting for you. $175/hr. It could easily be double that. They are not plumbers. So he spends 4hrs on your ***. He looks up local jurisdiction, listens to your story, establishes some form of case, puts a couple people on it to dig up some prior case law and precedence, and gets back with you. Theres $700.
You go to court. You lose. You owe $120 for the ticket. Court costs are another $70 or so give or take. There's almost $200 wrapped up right here all by itself.
So your total costs in time, prep work, props, materials, legal counsel etc are:
$240 personal time
$700 lawyer time
$50 materials
$120 ticket
$70 court costs
Theres $1100 wrapped up. I never even threw in court time the lawyer will bill you. At $175/hr for a 30 minute case, theres another $88. That does not include your insurance premiums STILL going up anyhow.
Lets assume you just paid the ticket, bit the insurance hike and moved on.
$120 ticket
15% premium hike per half on $800 a half = $120x2 = $240
You are out $360.
So the difference in just eating your losses and going ***** out to fight it may cost you triple in the end. More than likely the number is quintuple.
We didnt factor in the headaches and frustration along way. Theres little to fret over by licking a stamp and sending a check.
I guess you could say writing this post cost me about $30 in time. Truth is you are probably right. It cost you $30 to read it. Maybe it will save you $500-1000 later on? Who knows.
You know, they say if you can reach just one person (hehe).
Hey Travis-
I still have those scales man! They are working great. I just need 5 ppl to help me move one when I need to relocate them.
Spend 10hrs farting around on the weekend and a couple days during the week establishing your defense.
At $35/hr which is low-balling a semi-professional wage by probably half, thats $350 of your time spent right there. Add a lawyer at $200/hr. If a lawyer is on the toilet even thinking of you, he will bill you. Just spending an hour in court is billable time win or lose. Theres $200 right there.
You could have $1000 wrapped up into a traffic ticket that will cost you $105 and raise your insurance $135 a half. And remember, this isnt realistic. the real cost is probably closer to $2500. You cant get your lawyer to send out a letter on his letterhead for under $300. Our company has been in so many lawsuits its ridiculous (never a case lost mind you). Its not uncommon to spend $80 grand fighting a case for $80 grand. Anymore we simply go to court to break even after attorney fees and protect our reputation. Im not sure personal driving reputation is quite the same thing.
The most important commodity and most expensive is time. Your time. Personally, even if they raised my insurance, its not worth an ounce of my time to fight it. Spend the same amount of time by putting your money to work for you and youll come out further ahead. If you are going to spend money, make sure you spend money to make money -- and if you arent, at least spend it on lifestyle. The courts get enough of our money as it is.
Theres no reason to jump over a dollar to save a dime.
Now, if we're talking pure satisfaction in beating the system at its game, that an entirely different matter and one you cannot quantify with dollar signs. If that joy alone is worth all the effort, then I say God Bless.
Example:
You get caught doing 77 in a 55. Local jurisdiction says thats reckless driving so you have to appear no matter what. Ticket is written for $120. If found guity your points go up and premiums on your insurance go up 15% a half. You currently pay $800 a half ($1600 which is incredibly high unless you are 16 but we'll roll with it for demonstrative purposes - if you are 16 no lawyer will bother with you anyway).
You spend 6hrs of your own time preparing a strategy, making phone calls, getting a hold of your lawyer, taking photos, doing some research on the Net, surfing Rennlist, etc etc.
At $40/hr that just cost you $240 in time when you could have been doing something else a hell of a lot more enjoyable like banging your neighbors girlfriend. Whatever it may be. I dont care. Point is, theres a million better things you can be doing -- some of which had you invested that $240 youd have your money making money.
You go to Krogers and spend $50 on props. Posterboard, pens, pencils, you make a Powerpoint presentation and print it out on nice photo paper. You really try to show the judge you mean business.
You call your lawyer. He spends 4hrs fighting for you. $175/hr. It could easily be double that. They are not plumbers. So he spends 4hrs on your ***. He looks up local jurisdiction, listens to your story, establishes some form of case, puts a couple people on it to dig up some prior case law and precedence, and gets back with you. Theres $700.
You go to court. You lose. You owe $120 for the ticket. Court costs are another $70 or so give or take. There's almost $200 wrapped up right here all by itself.
So your total costs in time, prep work, props, materials, legal counsel etc are:
$240 personal time
$700 lawyer time
$50 materials
$120 ticket
$70 court costs
Theres $1100 wrapped up. I never even threw in court time the lawyer will bill you. At $175/hr for a 30 minute case, theres another $88. That does not include your insurance premiums STILL going up anyhow.
Lets assume you just paid the ticket, bit the insurance hike and moved on.
$120 ticket
15% premium hike per half on $800 a half = $120x2 = $240
You are out $360.
So the difference in just eating your losses and going ***** out to fight it may cost you triple in the end. More than likely the number is quintuple.
We didnt factor in the headaches and frustration along way. Theres little to fret over by licking a stamp and sending a check.
I guess you could say writing this post cost me about $30 in time. Truth is you are probably right. It cost you $30 to read it. Maybe it will save you $500-1000 later on? Who knows.
You know, they say if you can reach just one person (hehe).
Hey Travis-
I still have those scales man! They are working great. I just need 5 ppl to help me move one when I need to relocate them.
06-02-2004, 08:40 PM
#29
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,022
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SH is right, the best way to get off is if the officer isn't there. my friend researched this alot and got off of a couple tickets with this. if the officer shows up, you ask for a continuance and hope the officer doesn't show up again, if he does, that's usually it. if the officer doesn't show up, the da can ask for a continuance, and you'll have to come back again and hope he's not there again. usually each side gets at least one continuance. good luck.
06-02-2004, 09:11 PM
#30
Site Sponsor
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: A great big building in the woods, FL.
Posts: 6,527
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
2 Posts
I hate to be repetitive but traffic lawyers charge a flat fee. Its usually less than $100. If they cannot get you off they refund it. You DO NOT have to show up. They do EVERYTHING for you. Even go to court and plead your case. They are in business to make money... Everyone I know who has went to one has got off without the ticket and no fine/fee besides from the lawyer.
LOL, the scales are great. I saved 4 for myself out of the lot I had. I made some carts for 2 of them and the other two are stacked in the back of the shop as spares.
I actually got one hooked up with my UPS world ship so it does the weight for me when printing labels on the shipping computer. I wish I could get some more. Everyone loved them.
LOL, the scales are great. I saved 4 for myself out of the lot I had. I made some carts for 2 of them and the other two are stacked in the back of the shop as spares.
I actually got one hooked up with my UPS world ship so it does the weight for me when printing labels on the shipping computer. I wish I could get some more. Everyone loved them.