Chase72

Joe: Well said

1bad914

Not the same comparison, but I have a 97 328i w/sport package and an 83 and 85 944N/A and an 88 924. The 328 seems to have better acceleration, but has the tendancy to get a little loosey goosey in the corners. The 944/924's are more fun to drive in the curves, but fall short coming out of the turns. Just my .02. I like to dive both, but my heart is into Porsches, so I prefer the 9's. I take the 328 on trips, I take the 9's out to play!

Lali

I have a copy of an old Evo magazine that did a road and track comparison of a whole load of cars when the 944 was a "current" car and they made the 944S2 the EVO handling car of the year kicking the pants off the E30 M3.
I have had an E30 M3 and now have an S2... havent really got to grips with the S2 yet but early impressions are that it is a damn site easier to drive in haste... I'll try and dig out the copy of the Mag and let you have the details...

streckfu's

Pleas share!!

jim944s2

It's not useless, it's a fun discussion!, and there's a lot of interest based on the # of pages.
I almost bought an e30 m3 a few years ago, I had an '86 951 at the time. I loved the way the M3 looked, and I really-really wanted to like it. But, I was SO dissapointed!, it's wasn't nearly as fast as I had hoped, and it's handling reputation seemed undeserved (it was stock). It pulled nowhere near as hard in a straight line as my 951. I've always thought it would be comparable to a 944S, and I think my S2 (w/ M030springs/t-bars, yellow konis) would smoke it everywhere but the tightest auto-x course (and yet I never see anyone auto-x them). Oh, and I don't think my 6'3" would fit in it w/ a helmet, headroom is much better in a 944.
I just don't get why they're so 'legendary', and now they seem to be more valuable than E36M3s? I swear my '88 Scirocco w/ a 2.0 is just as fast or faster than that M3 (but probably not over 80mph), and the Sciroccos of the same vintage (w/ 1.8) had a 7 second 0-60, -which doesn't say much for the M3. Other than the fender flares, I don't see any reason why the E30 M3 is so popular. -the M steering wheel was kind cool though...

Robby

Exactly..... I've always liked the "M" cars, &, unfortunately, have never driven an E30 M3, so this discussion is particularly interesting to me....

Fishey- I COMPLETELY agree on what you guys are saying about the steering feel of the E36 M3- that goes for ALL BMWs that I've driven- even the 394HP M5 felt WAY too light for it's otherwise race-car-like feel. The M5 was particularly strange- it felt okay on-center, but, was not as connected feeling my 951- it's turn-in was decent, although light, BUT, after ~1/4 turn, it seems as if it turns in much more sharply & is not gradual or linear feeling at all.... So, it seems to kind of thrwo you into corners- I'm sure it would be fine after a few days of getting used to it, but, at first, it's a little too much... I got almost the same feeling off the E46M3 too....

Jim- interesting info- sorry you had such a bad experience w/your E30- I would still love to drive one someday, just to see for myself... They WERE, as other's have pointed out, race cars made for the street- they had a lot of luxury options, but, were still a little agressive, handling-wise, for a normal everyday driver.... Also, I want to hear more about this 2.0L Scirocco- I'm sending you a PM right now....

d993

In handling, yes the E30 has a SLIGHT advantage, but not much to brag about.
That's it, JUST HANDLING!
I should know, because a good friend of mine has had a '88 M3 for a few years now. When he first got it (he was 18 at the time), I asked how much he paid for it. The car had 176k miles, burned some oil, and had a recent not-so-great paintjob. It had a SS high-flow exhaust, cam gears, and a K&N cone. He paid $7500. WHAT THE F*** I kept saying over and over!
I wanted to race him in the '89 944S2 I had back then, but he said he just wanted to drive my S2 first.
He came back saying "damn, it's not even close".
He was right, not even close!
From 0-60, I left him about 1.5 cars.
From 0-100, I left him about 6 or 7 cars, and if we kept going over 100, he would be WAY WAY back.
In the mountains, I would leave him behind in the 2nd and 3rd gear corners, and even though he maintained a slightly higher speed through the twisties, I would pull ahead too fast for him to catch up.
I'm sure a decent running 944S (2.5 16V) would still beat the E30 M3.
In the time I owned it, I've raced several E30 M3's here in the Atlanta area, and same results.
The E30 M3 is a GREAT handling car, but it costs more to maintain than my 993!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And the cars are expensive to buy. Usually cost more than a S2!
No thanks! Not for me!
And the E30 M3's powerband is just like a VTEC Honda: Some decent high rpm power, but NO TORQUE WHATSOEVER! It reminds me of the '87 VW Scirocco 16V I had back in 1991 (with better handling, of course).
Definately NOT a good "bang for the buck".

d993

Don't hate me for this, but for $12k (average price for a decent E30 M3), I would even rather have a (get ready for this) Integra Type R, which out-handles the E30 M3 (stock vs stock), and costs almost nothing to maintain! That's how bad of a rip-off I think the E30 M3 is!

Chase72

Lali: That article would be great to see! Please do share...

d993: thanks for your personal insight. Always good to hear from drivers who have had experiences with both cars, especially racing!

UDPride

d993 is right,

however theres about 20 cars from the 90s that you could point to that could probably outhandle a 944. thats just the maturation of engineering. integras, mr2s, lots of small nimble cars in the 90s. i think comparing cars in the 90s to cars built on technology back to the early 80s though isnt quite fair. at least an E30 M3 vs. a 944 is a fair comparison as they are of same vintage.

Ive heard some conflicting reports on this too of some E30 M3 owners who've apparently carved up some nice back country roads and left a lot of cars in the rear view. Perhaps its driver, perhaps its not. I dont think an E30 M3 is necess. a bad bargain though. Nobody makes an engine as smooth as BMW and if you take care of them, they will run pretty much forever. Most 80s 3-series cars are bulletproof.

Now, Ive been looking hard for an E28(??????) M5 (first gen M5). 280+ hp in total sheeps clothing. Ive got a gigantic ***** for one of those blackened bad boys. If not though Id settled for a nice red on black 535is.

chilix

Personally I prefer my 944 N/A over my buddy's BMW, I don't like the way you sit in the car when driving. BMW's remind me of driving an older SAAB which are still cool cars, I just don't preference the seating. I feel more attached to the car in a 944 over a BMW. Even with more power in his car I still prefer the handling of my 944, more forgiving in the autocross.

No disrespect to BMW's though. They can be killer track cars, i.e. late 90's M3 sedan.

joseph mitro

that's why i prefer my less powerful 944 for autocrossing and (eventually) track events

again, i agree. especially with some suspension mods, mild bolt on engine mods, and weight reduction they can be great. that's why they are so popular at track events and autocrossing.

Fishey

The basic design for the 944 is from the early 70's altho alot has changed the same main design elements are the same through 1995. That is an impressive time period.

Re-animator

Agreed, a time when factory product from Porsche was honed straight from their racing department design experience. There is no doubt that the torsional rigidity of today's products exceed that of the old flex chassis era. As an ex owner of a 996 Cab, 996 TT, 986, and 986S; this Porschephile loves the older race design stuff best.

pig4bill

Bench racing is all well and good, but in the real world it's easy to get more power out of an M3 or even move the power band around with adjustable cam gears. With a 944S or S2 you either leave it as is or take drastic measures to get more power out of them.