dmfclf82

I purchased an 89 944 turbo from the Orlando area. Prior to making the purchase I had Porsche of Orlando do a PPI. The things that they noted on the PPI were as follows:

Crank seal leak
Front pads warn
right inner tie rod loose
Alignment
Air filter dirty

Leak down test results 2%, 1%, 2%, & 3%

I spoke to Cameron who is the service writer and he said the car was very nice and in great condition for the year of the car. In my negotiations with the PO he agreed to take care of the crank seal leak, front pads and while he was there he noticed the balance shaft seal was leaking and replace it.

I flew to Orlando and made the purchase and had the car transported to Indy. I then took the car to my mechanic to have the tie rods replaced. My mechanic tells me that there is a massive oil leak from the oil pan and a leak from the steering rack. He wants about $2500 to make the repairs to both.

My question is How in the hell could a Porsche Authorized dealer miss these Items? Of course I called Cameron back and he said that they only do a visual inspection. (not at all what I was told when I made the arrangements for the PPI) He is not willing to compensate me for anything. His response was that they do not guarantee anything.

I left the PO a phone message but have not had the opportunity to discuss these items with him yet..

Welcome to Porsche ownership

Any thoughts?

Luis de Prat

Really sorry to hear this.

Unfortunately, Porsche dealerships are too concerned with selling new and recent cars than to bother with our 15+ year-old "models of yesteryear".

The dealers are totally uninterested in looking after the 70% of older models that are still running strong.

Theoretically, that's where PCA comes in, but that's obviously not cutting it or there wouldn't be so many of us older Porsche enthusiasts flocking to Rennlist to seek help keeping our cars running.

Porsche as a company is going through a complete change in philosophy. As an auto builder it is pulling away from the things that made the marque legendary -namely the appreciation for its enthusiast customers.

As a dealer sees it, if you're not on the lot checking out a new Boxster, Carrera, or Cayenne, your're simply not worth their time. They don't stock the parts you need to fix a 951 and 9 times out of 10 the repair estimate will exceed an amount commensurate with the value of the car so they figure, why should they bother?

Very sad. Good luck with your car anyway. Indy is a major auto capital!

dave120

One thing I've found there is that you have to be careful who looks at your car. Some of the mechanics there suck, or at least don't know how to work on 944s. I had my car in there to get a tech inspection for a DE and I figured I'd just have them flush/bleed my brakes and clutch so I wouldn't have to bother with it. It took them an HOUR AND A HALF to bleed the clutch and on my trip home the pedal went to the floor and stayed there. Wonderful, now my clutch was an on/off switch with no friction point and I just paid them an hour and a half of labor to screw it up. Good thing it was all highway driving to get home. I put my car on the lift here and dad and I had it bled in 5 minutes and it WORKED. Tech inspections for DE, fine, I've watched them do that and they do it as well as anybody else, but they're not working on my car again. The alignment guy there is really good though, I make sure we get him to do my alignments and he also does the tech inspection.

You're much better off with a shop like Redbone Garage in Orlando to get any repairs or maintenance done.

Z-man

That is completely true. But, in their defense, there are alot more Boxsters and 996's out there today than there are 944's, 914's, and older 911's. It's a simple "law of supply and demmand" rule. I don't service my 944S2 at a dealer simply because they don't really want me there! However, that's where your independant Porsche mechanic comes in - they LOVE to service all Porsches from all years, and thus, they know the older cars better. Porsche dealer mechanics rarely see older, higher-mileage 944's, and frankly they don't know the in's and out's as much as the indie shops do.

That said, I had a PPI done on a 1987 944 with 82,000 miles. They were asking $4690 for it. Looked clean for me, but I took it to Cherry Hill Porsche in Cherry Hill, NJ for a PPI. Turns out that just about everything you can imagine was wrong with the car, including the clutch, the motor mounts, seals, PS rack...etc. The PPI showed that I would need to spend about $4000.00 to get it in running order. So a $4690.00 944 quickly became a close to $9000.00 car.

It is too bad that the PPI you had done wasn't done properly. A good PPI should take about an hour. An excellent PPI should take closer to two hours.

Hope you get the repairs done and enjoy the car - hopefully after all the leaks are sorted out, you'll have some carefree miles with your new toy.

Good luck,
-Z-man.

dmfclf82

Dave120
I bought my car from the brother of one of the mechanics at redbone. They were the ones who were going to fix the crand seal before I bought the car. Redbone has done virtually all of the maint. for the past 4 years. The PO of my car is a PCA member. I want to give him a chance to help me find a soulution to the problems.

Luis de Prat

Was that $4K to spend at Cherry Hill Porsche or at your independent Porsche mechanic? Big difference!

Luis de Prat

Nice color! What color is the interior?

Flight_951

I had a similar situation when I bought my '89 in Sarasota. It's a gamble when you have a PPI done, although you are nearly always better off when you have one done. After all the PO fixed some problems for you prior to sale that he wouldn't have done without the PPI. I wouldn't hassle the PO over this.

I would, however, file a complaint with the BBB against the shop that did an incomplete PPI in the first place. The shop claims no guarantees, but I feel that they have a legally binding contract to you to conduct a thorough inspection, and obvious leaks and problems should be noted. You probably wouldn't see any money, possibly a PPI refund like I received.

dave120

dmfclf82 I know the PO of that car. He's a good friend of mine, actually I bought my S2 from him a few years ago. I remember something about the pan gasket leaking on that one a little bit, but if it was a massive leak I'm sure we would have fixed it already since he does stay up with maintenance. Actually I almost bought that car a while back when he was thinking of selling but couldn't do it without selling my S2. The suspension he put on that car is the setup I copied on mine after riding with him at a DE. What is a "massive" oil leak on the pan anyways? It's rare to see a 944 that doesn't leak there AT ALL unless it's just had the gasket replaced...something I need to get to eventually but the leak is too small to go through the hassle for. I hope you get it resolved dmfclf82, that really is a sweet car.

dmfclf82

Louis de Prat: The car is Linen metallic with burgandy interior. Both the interior and exterior are in excellent condition. I have a stack 3 inches thick of records from the privious owners. Overall the car is in excellent condition. I am just frustrated to look for a car for so long. Take all the necessary steps to ensure that I am not buying a car that needs major repairs and then find out that obvious things were missed.

dave120: Juan is a very nice guy. Like i posted earlier I have not had the opportunity to discuss these items with him yet. When I flew to Orlando and he picked me up he was very concerned whether or not I liked the car and that it was represented accurately.

I feel like I spent top dollar fot the car based on the condition and the PPI now I am faced with major $'s in order to put the car in the condition it needs to be in for me to feel comfortable driving it.

Thanks for the input.

Zero10

stupid question, but on a PPI, isn't it a long list of check-boxes, and some room for extra comments?... I wonder what they wrote about the oil pan??

Tom R.

I agree with Luis when it comes to the dealer's indifference.

The power steering rack is a common leak, and many people go years without changing it.

the oil pan gasket is a "while you are in there" thing. How old are the motor mounts? It was $150 for my oil pan gasket job. But that was because he was doing the motor mounts, and it was another $150 to do the rod bearings.

If you get the motor mounts from Paragon or Sunset you will save substantial $$$

testarossa_td

Like everything in life, a PPI is just insurance.
Rennlist is your only real PPI!
Know before you buy and don't buy unless you can see the car first hand.
On top of all the stuff previously mentioned. No mechanic is going to be held liable for anything they say, and on top of that if you are not going to be coming to them for repairs, what do they care...and even more so if you are having the car shipped out of town they are even less concerned!
And the only reason they give warranties is because they have them on the parts themselves.-and if you have to come back, maybe they will find something else wrong.....
I have seen a ton of bad mechanics and very few Great ones.
This is the case in every industry.
In the DFW area Zims has always taken care of business!
I don't think the do PPI anymore because too many people would come back and go...you did not tell me this that or the other and you owe me.
I am sure there is already a list here on Rennlist somewhere, but if not surely somebody can start a thread. Checklist for common 44/24 problems.
Then take this to your PPI'er and make that your guarantee.
Check these problems and get back to me.

dmfclf82

UPDATE: I found a rebuild rack for $220. I also got confirmation of the oil pan leak OUCH! They want about $1400 for replacing the gasket. From what i am gathering this is a bitch of a job.

Micah

dmfclf82,

Check PMs.

Micah