Matt H

WTF, who is randomly editing posts? At least be polite enough to let me know what you did and why you did it. Is that too much to ask?

Hell, I paid the guy a compliment. He is very knowledgable...just not terribly friendly.
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500

When I look at the picture of dmsog's engine bay at the top of the previous page, I'm really impressed. It is a great job! I have visited that hybrid forums and between there and here, there is some attitude on both sides of the fence which is a little discouraging.

I'm with what I believe is the majority here, that these conversions are very cool when done well and I appreciate them. We all have our own personal preference (I would prefer to stay with a Porsche motor, perhaps an S2 or 968 mill) but I also feel that a good LS1 is a very worthwhile engine too.

I do agree though, that if you are contemplating this, a turbo chassis is a better starting point with the better brakes and transmission.

expuppy

I am the proud owner and driver of a 993 ( after an SC, 911T, 944T, and even a 924). Love the car, drives like a porsche, sounds like a porsche. In my garage is a 87 NA 944 with an LS1 (cam, no emissions, light mods) sitting in the engine bay being wired and plumbed with hoses, etc. I hope to drive it in the next couple of weeks. I could afford a porsche engine for the car, but i WANTED an LS1 as sort of a test to determine if the handling, braking of the car could be augmented with lots of HP and still be fast on a track and the street. I ran the Cannonball Run, ( One Lap of America) back in May in a modified Mini, and decided it would be cool to build a car that runs good on the street and is competitive on the track. I think the 944-LS1 may be that car and intend to find out next year. I am realistic. I dont think i will whip the high HP, 4wheel drive entries, but hope to be competitive with all of the 2WD entries. The car is not cheap. I will have invested about $12k in engine, car, coilovers, big brakes, etc by the time i drive it the FIRST time and no doubt will pump another few thou in it before next years cannonball. I am unsure if i remove the Porsche name from it when it goes away to get paint. I understand the porsche purists not liking the car, but i CHOSE this platform for its handling, just like i CHOSE the ls1 for it power/weight ratio that fit my budget.

BTW, I have ridden in predators LT1-944 and i can tell you it is a BEAST. i have never ridden in a street car that pulls your skin off your face and dislodges internal organs like that car. I know that my challenge is to get that same acceleration and match it to some brakes and balance to have a truly unique and fun car. That was my 10 cents worth. I dont really care what anyone says about the converted car. I am building it for me for a very particular purpose.

David Floyd

Sounds like a fun project to me

ljibis

I agree with your stance on hybrids, but I think this part of what you wrote is a little off base.

First, reserving enthusiasm for particular model lines is a little snobbish. They are all Porsches. The company wouldn't be around today if it weren't for the hot-selling 944, and they developed a lot of technology on the platform that contributed to what their cars are today.

Go to a PCA meeting or club racing event and you'll see unbridled enthusiasm for all types of 944's. For many people the 944 was the point of entry into the Porsche world. They are excellent race cars, and there are a lot of very serious PCA folks who would happily shred any notion of the substandard stature of the 944-series cars. You will not make many friends by saying "911's are the only Porsche's worth being enthusiastic about." A real enthusiast appreciates anything with the badge.

The low values are due to many reasons - mostly the huge supply of cars. They sold a lot of 944's...they were Porsches for the masses. 10 years ago the 914 was in a similiar spot. Now, the values of 914's are going up as the market realizes that only the good cars are left. I suspect something similiar will happen to 944's. It's already happening with 968's.

Lastly, you'll be hard-pressed to find any manufacturer that fully supports a platform as old as the 944. Why would you get incredibly expensive factory service for a $4k to $8k car? The dealerships focus on what they are selling and what they are covering under the warranty work.

500

Actually, I think the factory does a good job of supporting the 944 and has not disowned the car at all. I have more trouble finding spare parts for my '89 Ford than for the 944 (I am not kidding). I have been able to get pretty much anything at the dealer (although I also get a lot of parts from Paragon etc.) and have always recieved good service when ordering parts. The Porsche website even has a nice bunch of 944 stuff in the history section...

And our PCA chapter up here has a lot of 944 folks too. There is even one gentleman with a hybrid coming out on track days (I have not seen his car yet),

It's all good.

jonnybgood

Your points are well taken. The 944 can stand on its own merits and I do think there will be a market swing like what happend with the 914.

I now have this 944 and I like driving it and want to drive it for some time. I have been chasing belt tensioning problems since July. It finally turns out the bearing on the water pump was shot and the excess friction caused the belts to heat. I tried eveything else but the pump because I have never owned a car that needed the $320 water pump changed every year or 30k miles (for Laso OEM). You can buy the one from the dealer for ~$500 and get two years on it. WTF! Did they put the intern engineer on the water pump during design? The SBC will run for ever on one water pump and to replace it it is likely less than $100.

Anyway my Porsche loyalty is tempered and not up to the level of "if you take the engine out of a Porsche you take the soul out of the car".

I agree, If I had a company that was selling $100k cars I would certainly put little effort into a 20 year old model.

On another note about Porsche. Why are they hamstringing the Cayman by not giving it the 3.8 liter engine. The factory rep is quoted in Excellence as saying the only car they will support in racing is the 911 platform. The Cayman is only 8 seconds slower over 16 miles at Nurburing (sp). I think they have another well balanced car in the Cayman and they have this tunnel vision on the rear engine layout.

ljibis

Sorry to hear about your water pump problems. Are you doing the work yourself or is a shop? I've heard of the water pump bearings going out if the belt is over-tensioned.

I agree with you on the Cayman...that would make an awesome race car with the right engine. We'll see where they go. I'm guessing that if it's a sales success they'll reconsider their position somewhat. Maybe.

I can't see myself buying a factory-new Porsche unless they drop the attitude towards "entry level" (aka cars around $30k) sports cars and come out with a FR, neo-944 kind of vehicle. Wouldn't that be cool? Get younger folks, or those that don't want to spend a ton of $$, involved in the new cars again.

To Allan's point, I've had great experiences at one of my local OPC's. They delivered my car new in 1986. The current service manager was around back then, and actually remembers the car thanks to all the records I have from delivery and it's first few years of life. They treat it like a spoiled pet when it's in for oil changes....

86 951 Driver

I am still on the fence on whether I could take the porsche motor out of my car and put in a v8. It seems cool because then the 924/944 will seem more like a modern day sports car. Today's standards the stock N/A doesn't make that much power but back in the 80's it made about the same power as a Firebird 305 TBI. I am wanting to do the swap of a LT1 into my 924S but I would like to keep my power brakes and steering and a/c. I like those comforts.

944SuperCar

My '83 944 N/A's engine was starting to really show its age and I decided to do the swap instead of rebuilding the engine. I figured why not have the power I've always wanted for the same price. It's amazing how powerful the car is now.
You can keep your power steering and AC but the stock brake boost has to go. Keep in mind, the stock brake boost makes your car feel like its stopping better BUT it doesn't actually have more stopping power. Without it, you just jave to press harder. I just bought a BMW hydraulic booster off of e-bay for $50 and will be putting it in the car. I do like the feel of power brakes. I use the car as my daily driver and it's just crazy fun! Imagine driving at 25/30mph in second gear, giving it some gas (not even full throttle mind you) with the clutch fully engaged(no clutch popping) and being able to light up the tires. It's a dream come true.

jonnybgood

Yeah, doing the work myself. I will be watching the belt tension very closely because that is what I feel happend. It was likely too tight and stressed the water pump bearing.

alordofchaos

For my two cents, it's better to drive a 944 with the 'vette engine, than the vette witht the vette engine

pcarfan944

Time always reduces the value of a car. Back in 1983 when the 944 was first brought to America, it listed for $20,830, which in today’s dollars would probably be more like $45,000. By the time it reached the end of it's life in the early 90s, they were being sold for as much as 50 grand. When a former $50,000 car has gotten down into the $5,000-15,000 dollar range a lot of people who have lusted after them can finally afford to buy one. What most of them don't realize is that when something does break or need maintenance, the parts are labor are still for a $50,000 car. See the other red car in my profile? A water pump for that will set you back around $800. The 30k major service which includes the timing belt and water pump will set you back $4000-5000. A former $30,000 car (In the 70s! So more like $90,000 in today’s money?), costs like a $90,000 car, no matter what price. Would we rip out the motor and put in a Chevy ? No.

Mighty Shilling

I absolutely must admit, that I have seen a beautiful example of a hybrid at 944 fest. the car was gorgeous, and the engine swap looked like a quality build...

Now, that said...

as for ME, like I've said in other hybrid threads, I'm not a fan of the idea. I, like the other naysayers, believe that the 2.5L 4 cylinder is what makes the 924/944/968 series cars what they are. it's not about the power, it's about the handling. Therefore, I will not (in my opinion) waste my money on throwing in a non-porsche engine. If you will, great, whatever floats yer boat.

Predator, you do have a great example there.

NZ951

Amazing how the "Hybrid" guys refer to Rennlist as "Booblist" (last I saw saying that was Tifosiman) and put everyone down here (they even have a special section to put people down from Rennlist), but cant help but come post here