Looking for all nine 1987 U.S. Turbo Cup cars

centerpunch · 10-26-2005, 01:50 AM

UPDATE: There is a lot of good information on the specs and history of these special factory race cars throughout this thread, but for those of you with short attention spans, 364 days after this was posted, we finally had located all of these special cars.

See this post for a list of all nine cars
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...&postcount=163

And here's a list of the unique features on these cars on post #45
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...9&postcount=45

And now, back to the original post...........

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Looking for all nine 1987 U.S. Turbo Cup factory race cars

I have one of the nine, and thought Rennlist would be the place to try to track down the owners of all nine 1987 Turbo Cup cars brought in for the SCCA "Escort" Showroom stock series.

Below is some information data from an old list I have in my files. This info is probably from before 1990. This is from a hand-written sheet that someone gave me a couple years after I purchased my car in 1987. It is not an official document, it looks like someone had researched these cars by possibly talking with someone at Porsche Motorsports North America (which at the time, was run by Holbert in Pennsylvania). I also have a 1991 letter from the Porsche factory stating that 9 cars were sold through Holbert.

ANY RENNLISTERS HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF WHERE THESE CARS ARE TODAY?

165101 PMNA to Sewickley Porsche Audi (dealership), sold to Powell Motorsports (Corvette race team) early 1987 - from Powell to GM for testing?

165102 PMNA to Bob Bogan (motorsports International) Raced 1987 Escort series, all races except Mid-Ohio, Sold to John Lowe 4/88.

165103 PMNA to Freddie Baker (racer and dealer, I think), Purchased by (illegible, something like "Augie Barve" or "Algrill Earle") '87, purchased by Rich Moskalik 4/88

165104 PMNA to Rick Hurst Racing - Ran -87 Escort series, possibly wrecked in '87, current status not known

165105 PMNA to Carlson Porsche - photo's in Automotion catalog, written up in Excellence Magazine Feb -88 issue

165106 and 165107 NOT distributed through PMNA, PMNA believes they went to Canada direct

165108 PMNA to Sewickley Porsche Audi- sold to Burt Pharris 11/87

165109 PMNA to Paul Allen of Cincinnati Microwave, Escort radar detector company. (THIS IS MY CAR.)

165110 PMNA to BFGoodrich - Tire testing

165111 PMNA to Charlie Spira - Los Angeles, private owner, Wrightwood Racing?

Scootin159 · 10-26-2005, 01:56 AM

There's one (or two?) at the Taj Maj Garage. I'm not sure if they're US or Canadian though, but would be a worth giving it a quick check.

Z-man · 10-26-2005, 01:58 AM

Paul,
I know that a family that's involved in Club Racing and DE in the Northeast that have at least two 951 cup cars, possibly three. But I'm pretty sure they have the cup cars that raced in the Canadian cup series, not the US / SCCA escort series. If you wish to pursue it further, let me know - I can send them an email to verify this information.

Give a call to Will DiGiovanni at Precision Motorsports in Califon, NJ. 908-832-6572. He owns an original Firestone Firehawk 944S2, and I've seen some 968 Firehawks in his shop as well. It wouldn't surprise me if he's wrenched on a cup car or two that you seek. If not, he may be able to give you some leads.

Good luck in your pursuit!
-Zoltan.

PS: Can't believe you owned a 904 GTS. Very cool.

xsboost90 · 10-26-2005, 02:27 AM

this one is at the tajmagaraj. Very nice only somewhat restored.

Porschephile 924 · 10-26-2005, 02:59 AM

oooo... look at how not pitted the fog lights are!!!

PEvans · 10-26-2005, 05:38 AM

Paul,

Carlson Porsche is probably Carlsen Porsche in Redwood City, CA
3636 Haven Avenue
Redwood City, CA 94603
(650) 701-9200 (might be the parts & service number)

Robby · 10-26-2005, 06:36 AM

Just curious... What was their HP/TQ? Weight?

How many special series 951's were there? What about S2's & 968's? I've read about the Rothmans, maybe...? Did these have roll cages like the Cups? I also know there was a 968CS in Europe- was there ever such thing as a 951CS? In the USA? Any other special 951's made? Also, there was a 951 Cup car in some parts of the world... France maybe? That was completely street- I've always wanted one of the badges, actually...

There's guy on this list who has one of the original Al Holbert ones- Is this a dif series too, or, is it one of the Cup cars you're looking for? Actually, I think it's one that Al raced himself... I've seen threads where the guy I'm talking about has chimed in about it... he seems to be very interested in it's history, etc... might find him on the 951 board... Might try a search b/c I've seen him around a few times on 944 boards... Use the search function w/"Al Holbert" maybe...?

good luck...

beeg · 10-26-2005, 09:26 AM

Robby
Ask John at the Taj. I'm sure he has more than one and can answer any query bout the cars that U can raise.

tifosiman · 10-26-2005, 10:44 AM

No.

The Taj only has one 951 Cup car and it is an 88 car designated for the Rothmans Series in Canada. The other 951 racecar in the collection is an 86 that has been converted to a DE car and promotional car for "Ashley & Hillary".

A picture of the authentication letter for the 88 Tcup car there:

944Fest (aka Dan P) · 10-26-2005, 12:39 PM

I've testified here before that I knew of a 944 Turbo "Club Sport" sold for street use. Many folks told me that car didn't exist. It was bought by a "Mr. Albert Grill" or "Al Grill" from Bedford Porsche, owned by Freddy Baker. It was white with a "Club Sport" decal on the RF fender. It did a couple DE track days and had an incident in turn 13 of Mid Ohio, damaging one of the rear corners. I'd say without a doubt this was your car # 165103. He's since retired to Florida.

JustinL · 10-26-2005, 12:43 PM

I often wondered where that car went! I used to oggle that car when they had it for sale here in Edmonton.

Matt H · 10-26-2005, 01:11 PM

There was one that popped up on here if memory serves. It was a complete basket case and the owner wanted a mint for it.

tifosiman · 10-26-2005, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt H

There was one that popped up on here if memory serves. It was a complete basket case and the owner wanted a mint for it.

That one was an 86, the re-bodied Holbert car. I don't disagree with the "basketcase" and the "mint" statements though. I saw an ad that the owner had in the latest Panorama, looks like he is spending some money on advertising. Though, I think the ad makes no mention of the full extent of its current state.

michaelathome · 10-26-2005, 01:44 PM

http://www.944central.com/951/smphotos.asp

This the one you are looking for?

Michael

Oddjob · 10-26-2005, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 944Fest (aka Dan P)

I've testified here before that I knew of a 944 Turbo "Club Sport" sold for street use. Many folks told me that car didn't exist. It was bought by a "Mr. Albert Grill" or "Al Grill" from Bedford Porsche, owned by Freddy Baker. It was white with a "Club Sport" decal on the RF fender. It did a couple DE track days and had an incident in turn 13 of Mid Ohio, damaging one of the rear corners. I'd say without a doubt this was your car # 165103. He's since retired to Florida.

That one (#103) is showing as having sold to Rich Moskalik in '88, is that consistent with the time table of when Al Grill would have owned it?

Moskalik was the owner/founder of Kelly Moss ("Moss" came from his last name, "Kelly" was his wife's name). I know of an Escort car that came out of Kelly Moss about 8-10 years ago and has traded hands in the WI and MN area several times. I am planning on seeing that car this wknd and will check the VIN, but I was assuming it was the #103 car.

10-26-2005, 01:56 AM	#2
Scootin159 Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Syracuse, NY Posts: 2,829	There's one (or two?) at the Taj Maj Garage. I'm not sure if they're US or Canadian though, but would be a worth giving it a quick check. __________________ Scott Newton 1987 944 N/A 2006 Subaru Impreza WRX STi 1989 Red Devil Formula 440 Previous: 1995 Mazda Miata, 1996 Jeep Cherokee

10-26-2005, 01:58 AM	#3
Z-man Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: North NJ, USA Posts: 9,055	Paul, I know that a family that's involved in Club Racing and DE in the Northeast that have at least two 951 cup cars, possibly three. But I'm pretty sure they have the cup cars that raced in the Canadian cup series, not the US / SCCA escort series. If you wish to pursue it further, let me know - I can send them an email to verify this information. Give a call to Will DiGiovanni at Precision Motorsports in Califon, NJ. 908-832-6572. He owns an original Firestone Firehawk 944S2, and I've seen some 968 Firehawks in his shop as well. It wouldn't surprise me if he's wrenched on a cup car or two that you seek. If not, he may be able to give you some leads. Good luck in your pursuit! -Zoltan. PS: Can't believe you owned a 904 GTS. Very cool. __________________ Guards Red 89 944S2 NNJR PCA #142 Forget World Peace -- Visualize using your turn signal. Team Graphic Interpolator/Chartologist & Driver -- "Hey, Wait For Me" Racing My homepage Mmmm... G-sum.... Mmmm

10-26-2005, 02:59 AM	#5
Porschephile 924 Wax On, Wax Off Rennlist Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: 5280 ft above the sea Posts: 15,074	oooo... look at how not pitted the fog lights are!!! __________________ 1988 944 Turbo S Gone but not forgotten: 1987 924S

10-26-2005, 06:36 AM	#7
Robby Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Knoxville TN Posts: 3,917	Just curious... What was their HP/TQ? Weight? How many special series 951's were there? What about S2's & 968's? I've read about the Rothmans, maybe...? Did these have roll cages like the Cups? I also know there was a 968CS in Europe- was there ever such thing as a 951CS? In the USA? Any other special 951's made? Also, there was a 951 Cup car in some parts of the world... France maybe? That was completely street- I've always wanted one of the badges, actually... There's guy on this list who has one of the original Al Holbert ones- Is this a dif series too, or, is it one of the Cup cars you're looking for? Actually, I think it's one that Al raced himself... I've seen threads where the guy I'm talking about has chimed in about it... he seems to be very interested in it's history, etc... might find him on the 951 board... Might try a search b/c I've seen him around a few times on 944 boards... Use the search function w/"Al Holbert" maybe...? good luck... __________________ Robby Zermatt Silver Turbo S "You also need some help, I'd suggest Russian Roulette with an automatic" - Dan Wray Last edited by Robby; 10-26-2005 at 10:04 AM.

10-26-2005, 09:26 AM	#8
beeg Addict Rennlist Member Rennlist Small Business Sponsor Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Cairns, FNQ, Australia and Macau SAR Posts: 2,155	Robby Ask John at the Taj. I'm sure he has more than one and can answer any query bout the cars that U can raise. __________________ Brian 84 944, Guards Red, Fuchs, Factory Alarm, Incredibly handsome{the car, not me!}, Uber rare 'A/C don't work' option[code#666666]! Sold " You don't appreciate a lot of stuff in school until you get older. Little things like being spanked every day by a middle-aged woman. Stuff you pay good money for in later life."

10-26-2005, 01:50 AM	#1
centerpunch Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 713	Looking for all nine 1987 U.S. Turbo Cup factory race cars UPDATE: There is a lot of good information on the specs and history of these special factory race cars throughout this thread, but for those of you with short attention spans, 364 days after this was posted, we finally had located all of these special cars. See this post for a list of all nine cars http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...&postcount=163 And here's a list of the unique features on these cars on post #45 http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...9&postcount=45 And now, back to the original post........... * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Looking for all nine 1987 U.S. Turbo Cup factory race cars I have one of the nine, and thought Rennlist would be the place to try to track down the owners of all nine 1987 Turbo Cup cars brought in for the SCCA "Escort" Showroom stock series. Below is some information data from an old list I have in my files. This info is probably from before 1990. This is from a hand-written sheet that someone gave me a couple years after I purchased my car in 1987. It is not an official document, it looks like someone had researched these cars by possibly talking with someone at Porsche Motorsports North America (which at the time, was run by Holbert in Pennsylvania). I also have a 1991 letter from the Porsche factory stating that 9 cars were sold through Holbert. ANY RENNLISTERS HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF WHERE THESE CARS ARE TODAY? 165101 PMNA to Sewickley Porsche Audi (dealership), sold to Powell Motorsports (Corvette race team) early 1987 - from Powell to GM for testing? 165102 PMNA to Bob Bogan (motorsports International) Raced 1987 Escort series, all races except Mid-Ohio, Sold to John Lowe 4/88. 165103 PMNA to Freddie Baker (racer and dealer, I think), Purchased by (illegible, something like "Augie Barve" or "Algrill Earle") '87, purchased by Rich Moskalik 4/88 165104 PMNA to Rick Hurst Racing - Ran -87 Escort series, possibly wrecked in '87, current status not known 165105 PMNA to Carlson Porsche - photo's in Automotion catalog, written up in Excellence Magazine Feb -88 issue 165106 and 165107 NOT distributed through PMNA, PMNA believes they went to Canada direct 165108 PMNA to Sewickley Porsche Audi- sold to Burt Pharris 11/87 165109 PMNA to Paul Allen of Cincinnati Microwave, Escort radar detector company. (THIS IS MY CAR.) 165110 PMNA to BFGoodrich - Tire testing 165111 PMNA to Charlie Spira - Los Angeles, private owner, Wrightwood Racing? __________________ Paul 1987 944 Turbo Cup factory race car-- purchased new 21 years ago! (All nine 1987 US 944 Turbo Cup cars have been located--see thread.) I beat Hurley Haywood- sideways! Automobile 10/03 pages 82-86 GONE : '64 904 GTS / '96 C4 / '89 C4 / '84 911 / '82 911 / '64 356 C (Got kids? Swords for Hire: A great book for young reluctant readers) Last edited by centerpunch; 02-11-2008 at 08:35 PM.

10-26-2005, 05:38 AM	#6
PEvans Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Los Altos Hills, CA Posts: 826	Paul, Carlson Porsche is probably Carlsen Porsche in Redwood City, CA 3636 Haven Avenue Redwood City, CA 94603 (650) 701-9200 (might be the parts & service number)

10-26-2005, 10:44 AM	#9
tifosiman Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: In the Heart of it All. Posts: 11,672	No. The Taj only has one 951 Cup car and it is an 88 car designated for the Rothmans Series in Canada. The other 951 racecar in the collection is an 86 that has been converted to a DE car and promotional car for "Ashley & Hillary". A picture of the authentication letter for the 88 Tcup car there:

10-26-2005, 12:39 PM	#10
944Fest (aka Dan P) Addict Rennlist Lifetime Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Cleveland Posts: 4,425	I've testified here before that I knew of a 944 Turbo "Club Sport" sold for street use. Many folks told me that car didn't exist. It was bought by a "Mr. Albert Grill" or "Al Grill" from Bedford Porsche, owned by Freddy Baker. It was white with a "Club Sport" decal on the RF fender. It did a couple DE track days and had an incident in turn 13 of Mid Ohio, damaging one of the rear corners. I'd say without a doubt this was your car # 165103. He's since retired to Florida. __________________ Dan P 89 951 (road course) 02 Mini Cooper S (autocross) 67 440 Charger (drag strip) 03 Odyssey (Hers) 94 Land Bruiser (Tow Beast)

10-26-2005, 12:43 PM	#11
JustinL Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Edmonton AB Posts: 953	I often wondered where that car went! I used to oggle that car when they had it for sale here in Edmonton. __________________ 88 Turbo S SilverRose Megasquirted K27/6

10-26-2005, 01:44 PM	#14
michaelathome Addict Rennlist Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Chantilly VA Posts: 3,412	http://www.944central.com/951/smphotos.asp This the one you are looking for? Michael __________________ [2001 VW GTI GLS Storm Beige 5spd (daily) 2006 Toyota Rav4 4x4 Nautical Blue (daily)