Why a 944
02-25-2006, 01:00 AM
#1
Drifting
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Why a 944
I have got to ask the question?
I am in the process of acquiring a model of Porsche from each genre of the greats, I have noticed the 944 forum is very busy here and I actually see many 944's on the road.
What MY / Options would you suggest if buying a 944? and hopefully why as I really have not devoted much time in researching the 944.
I am from the rear engine 911 / 986 group at this point and would like some feedback on anyones thoughts.
This is a serious question as I plan on buying one before year end.
Thanks
Rod...
I am in the process of acquiring a model of Porsche from each genre of the greats, I have noticed the 944 forum is very busy here and I actually see many 944's on the road.
What MY / Options would you suggest if buying a 944? and hopefully why as I really have not devoted much time in researching the 944.
I am from the rear engine 911 / 986 group at this point and would like some feedback on anyones thoughts.
This is a serious question as I plan on buying one before year end.
Thanks
Rod...
02-25-2006, 01:25 AM
#2
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I drive an 87 944 everyday - it's a damn fine car if you ask me. Everytime I get in it, I just feel right - ergonomics are great, not an overly complex interior like my mother's 2005 VW - I just like it. The styling inside and out is still modern looking even in this day and age, it does not cost a ungodly amount of money to maintain.
02-25-2006, 01:51 AM
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Any of them are awesome cars. All the 944s will offer a great experience if you get into the right car. Or be willing to take the time and put the money to get a car where it should be.
It comes down to personal preference. The 944 handles amazingly. They communicate amazingly to the driver, and just all around have a feeling that most cars couldnt dream of having. An S2-cab would be a trip. Look for one with a strong history, all its maintenance, and just all around good care.
It comes down to personal preference. The 944 handles amazingly. They communicate amazingly to the driver, and just all around have a feeling that most cars couldnt dream of having. An S2-cab would be a trip. Look for one with a strong history, all its maintenance, and just all around good care.
02-25-2006, 01:57 AM
#4
Drifting
Thread Starter
I have to admit, they look good on the road
One wizzed by me about a year ago and all I saw was his/her license plate that read "SCHNELL" and was impressed by the car and (sic) the speed in which it passed me!!!
Thanks, good input so far!
One wizzed by me about a year ago and all I saw was his/her license plate that read "SCHNELL" and was impressed by the car and (sic) the speed in which it passed me!!!
Thanks, good input so far!
02-25-2006, 04:57 AM
#5
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The 83 to mid-85 944s are the early versions, and the mid-85 to 89 are the late versions. They made turbos (code name 951) from 86 to 88, and a turbo S from 88 to 89 (the 89 turbo S was called simply turbo). The 944 S was offered in 87 and 88. The 944 S2 was offered from 89-91, in coupe or cabriolet, and the pinnacle model 968 (which is really a 944 S3) was offered from 92-95.
Exteriors: The early and late 944s, as well as the 944 S all had the same body style, with black bumper pads and small fog lights. The turbo and S2 look identical with a more modern body, smoother bumper and a nice rear under-spoiler. The 968 looks like a cross between a 928 and 993.
Interiors: Every late 944, turbo, S, S2, and 968 has the same "late" interior. The early 944 has an old-school dashboard, which appeals to some but not many.
Engines: All 944s from 83-88 (early and late, except 89) have the same 2.5L 8v engine, with only MINOR changes made along the way (150hp). The 89 944 has a 2.7L 8v engine (165hp). The S models have 2.5L 16v engines (180hp). The S2s have 3.0L 16v engines (208hp), and the 968s have 3.0L 16v engines with variable valve timing (238hp). The 944 turbos all have 2.5L 8v engines (220hp). Turbos indisputably have the most potential in upgrades, 968s have the most stock performance, and an S2 and turbo are fairly equal when stock.
Some things to note: early cars have a computer quirk which causes a dip below idle when returning to idle. Turbos are not exactly reliable, whereas most any 944 is. The 968 clutch is easy to service, but any 944 clutch is a NIGHTMARE. The turbo, S2, and especially 968, benefit greatly from ECU chips. 16v models are twice as prone to engine failure since they have a timing belt AND chain.
Oh, and all 944s from 83-86 use an "early offset" so they use old Porsche rims like Fuchs. All 944s and 968s from 87 onward use a "late offset" so they use later Porsche rims like twists, C2s, D90s, nasty phone dials.
Exteriors: The early and late 944s, as well as the 944 S all had the same body style, with black bumper pads and small fog lights. The turbo and S2 look identical with a more modern body, smoother bumper and a nice rear under-spoiler. The 968 looks like a cross between a 928 and 993.
Interiors: Every late 944, turbo, S, S2, and 968 has the same "late" interior. The early 944 has an old-school dashboard, which appeals to some but not many.
Engines: All 944s from 83-88 (early and late, except 89) have the same 2.5L 8v engine, with only MINOR changes made along the way (150hp). The 89 944 has a 2.7L 8v engine (165hp). The S models have 2.5L 16v engines (180hp). The S2s have 3.0L 16v engines (208hp), and the 968s have 3.0L 16v engines with variable valve timing (238hp). The 944 turbos all have 2.5L 8v engines (220hp). Turbos indisputably have the most potential in upgrades, 968s have the most stock performance, and an S2 and turbo are fairly equal when stock.
Some things to note: early cars have a computer quirk which causes a dip below idle when returning to idle. Turbos are not exactly reliable, whereas most any 944 is. The 968 clutch is easy to service, but any 944 clutch is a NIGHTMARE. The turbo, S2, and especially 968, benefit greatly from ECU chips. 16v models are twice as prone to engine failure since they have a timing belt AND chain.
Oh, and all 944s from 83-86 use an "early offset" so they use old Porsche rims like Fuchs. All 944s and 968s from 87 onward use a "late offset" so they use later Porsche rims like twists, C2s, D90s, nasty phone dials.
02-25-2006, 06:47 AM
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Rod
You get one of these things and drive it. Like nothging on earth.
I drive mine daily whether it needs it or not! Try not to get power steering. It was 3 weeks after I bought mine that I found out that there was no power steering. They are that good.
Of course, I may have just lucked in to the worlds best '84 944 but I don't think so.
After a couple of weeks you get used to the wierd seating and steering wheel, the factory 'safety' features and the lack of noise.
I have taken to not using the radio so I can actually hear the engine when I drive!
Never, ever, ever, will I drive anything else! Promise!
You get one of these things and drive it. Like nothging on earth.
I drive mine daily whether it needs it or not! Try not to get power steering. It was 3 weeks after I bought mine that I found out that there was no power steering. They are that good.
Of course, I may have just lucked in to the worlds best '84 944 but I don't think so.
After a couple of weeks you get used to the wierd seating and steering wheel, the factory 'safety' features and the lack of noise.
I have taken to not using the radio so I can actually hear the engine when I drive!
Never, ever, ever, will I drive anything else! Promise!
02-25-2006, 11:59 AM
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Seating position and steering wheely?? Thats one of the reasons the 944 is my favorite! It has the ultimate interior! The late dash is perfect! Everything is where it should be and not busy at all. Nothing extra. The shifter is where it should be, and the wheel is dead on! I feel it was made for me at times!
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02-25-2006, 12:03 PM
#8
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You can pick up a S2 series, and you will never go back to the rear engine cars. All the 944's are great cars, I have owned, and still own several of them. I recently saved a 89 S2 from being a parts car. I got it back together and drove it everyday for 2 months. The silky power was wonderful. You can jump into a 944 everyday, and drive it without any worries. Yes, as with all Porsches, you will need to properly car for it. The timing belt should be as routine as oil changes, but if properly cared for, these cars are a ton easier to own and drive than the rear engine cars.
02-25-2006, 12:58 PM
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I understood his inquiry to be 'which 944 best represents the model range?'.....in other words, which one would be best to represent the range in a collection.
I'll probably ruffle some feathers by saying this as everyone loves 'their' year, but I would say that you should go with something post 85.5 as they have all the upgrades and the newer dash....some even assert that 85.5 is when the 944 became a 'true' Porsche.
Anything before that has one foot still stuck in 924....still stuck in Audi-land.
As far as 'the' classic 944, I'm partial to the 85.5's / 86's as they were the last 'pure' 944's being minus the ABS, the airbag, and the third brake light. ( here in the U.S. at least ,and these were the last models before the appearence of those 'tacked on' looking side protection strips that broke up the cars lines )
The body still has that classic beefy 944 look - they tried to round everything off later on but IMO the front end became a mess of vents and the car lost some of it's appeal visually as they tried to make a straight-forward / utilitarian design more 'pretty'.
These years also have the classic black Fuchs look that is a Porsche hallmark and a look that defined the 944 to the public.
Mechanically, later years were more powerful and slightly more sophisticated....but by those years the car had already started to 'morph' into the 968 so you get less of a pure 944 and more of a model that's caught in between- almost trying to be more of a 911 than unabashedly 944.
I am sure others will disagree. No matter which model you choose you will have a blast driving it...they really are like perfectly balanced little go-karts that just love the twisties.
Despite my soft spot for the 85.5's...the 'ultimate' 944 is definately the 951...but it is really more of a 944 on steroids and as others have noted the increased complexity may be better avoided.
Now, as to what color 944 that's another whole debate i'll leave for someone else to re-kindle.
I'll probably ruffle some feathers by saying this as everyone loves 'their' year, but I would say that you should go with something post 85.5 as they have all the upgrades and the newer dash....some even assert that 85.5 is when the 944 became a 'true' Porsche.
Anything before that has one foot still stuck in 924....still stuck in Audi-land.
As far as 'the' classic 944, I'm partial to the 85.5's / 86's as they were the last 'pure' 944's being minus the ABS, the airbag, and the third brake light. ( here in the U.S. at least ,and these were the last models before the appearence of those 'tacked on' looking side protection strips that broke up the cars lines )
The body still has that classic beefy 944 look - they tried to round everything off later on but IMO the front end became a mess of vents and the car lost some of it's appeal visually as they tried to make a straight-forward / utilitarian design more 'pretty'.
These years also have the classic black Fuchs look that is a Porsche hallmark and a look that defined the 944 to the public.
Mechanically, later years were more powerful and slightly more sophisticated....but by those years the car had already started to 'morph' into the 968 so you get less of a pure 944 and more of a model that's caught in between- almost trying to be more of a 911 than unabashedly 944.
I am sure others will disagree. No matter which model you choose you will have a blast driving it...they really are like perfectly balanced little go-karts that just love the twisties.
Despite my soft spot for the 85.5's...the 'ultimate' 944 is definately the 951...but it is really more of a 944 on steroids and as others have noted the increased complexity may be better avoided.
Now, as to what color 944 that's another whole debate i'll leave for someone else to re-kindle.
02-25-2006, 01:19 PM
#10
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Originally Posted by panzer grey
Now, as to what color 944 that's another whole debate i'll leave for someone else to re-kindle.
Seriously, I admire FR's post for completeness and Panzer's which has captured the heart of the issue magnificently. Having experienced both an 86 NA and the 89 S2, I am torn between the early post 85.5s and the S2/Turbos. Then again, the illustrated Porsche Buyer's guide says a turbo cab or 88 Turbo S is the most desireable as a collectible. I love the S2 and feel I will always have one even if I add another P-car later to the stable.
As many have said, you can't go wrong and it's most important to know what you're buying in terms of maintenace records and PPI. Thanks for noticing the high level of activity on this board - these guys are invaluable!
02-25-2006, 01:20 PM
#11
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i'll throw in the antagonistic voice here. i've owned three 944s including a turbo, and found them to be great driver's cars. the handling can be fantastic and the feedback really puts you in the driver's seat.
however, i've moved on to other rides. i got disillusioned with the constant maintenance and upkeep required. they are not simple, reliable cars to keep on the road. now that they are 15-23 years old, they will require a lot of upkeep and probably a lot of things will need to be fixed.
with that said, IMHO i would like for a 944S2 or 968 for power, refinement, and simplicity of mechanicals (as opposed to the more complex turbo)
however, i've moved on to other rides. i got disillusioned with the constant maintenance and upkeep required. they are not simple, reliable cars to keep on the road. now that they are 15-23 years old, they will require a lot of upkeep and probably a lot of things will need to be fixed.
with that said, IMHO i would like for a 944S2 or 968 for power, refinement, and simplicity of mechanicals (as opposed to the more complex turbo)
02-25-2006, 01:36 PM
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Wow! i was expecting the 'how DARE you assert that my 944 is less 'pure'!!!' rebuttals!
glad to see you understood that I was speaking in terms of the car's history and that any antagonism was not malicious.
As to the guide recommending the S2, I took it that they recommended it in terms of resale...in terms of 'collectability' in regard to holding it's value...not as to which model best represents the range in a collection.
As far as handling / performance the later years are definately better....but I took rbennett to be interested less in performance and more in collecting.
Maybe one way to put it is that the 85.5s are akin to the 911SC....while the S2's are like 964's and the 968 is akin to a 993.
What say you?
glad to see you understood that I was speaking in terms of the car's history and that any antagonism was not malicious.
As to the guide recommending the S2, I took it that they recommended it in terms of resale...in terms of 'collectability' in regard to holding it's value...not as to which model best represents the range in a collection.
As far as handling / performance the later years are definately better....but I took rbennett to be interested less in performance and more in collecting.
Maybe one way to put it is that the 85.5s are akin to the 911SC....while the S2's are like 964's and the 968 is akin to a 993.
What say you?
02-25-2006, 01:37 PM
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Below 100mph, the TurboS and S2 should offer a very similar experience. Turbo has its rush, and the S2 offers its "16 valve whine" which i personally cannot get enough of!
I personally prefer the rounded face, but i do have attraction to the old style body as well! I LOVE cookie-cutters for wheels too! I still think Porsche needs to put 18" cookie-cutters on their cars now!
A "red on black" car would probably be the "best example" of a 944 and the most recognizable. The 944 is one of the few cars however that can make any color look awesome. That is a sign of very strong lines and design harmony I think.
I personally prefer the rounded face, but i do have attraction to the old style body as well! I LOVE cookie-cutters for wheels too! I still think Porsche needs to put 18" cookie-cutters on their cars now!
A "red on black" car would probably be the "best example" of a 944 and the most recognizable. The 944 is one of the few cars however that can make any color look awesome. That is a sign of very strong lines and design harmony I think.
02-25-2006, 02:01 PM
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It's the only vehicle I've driven that turns driving in southern California from a dreadful chore and irritation into something that I almost look forward to. . . They're that good.
Basis of comparison (other cars I've either driven or owned that I think the 944 beats for "smiles per gallon):
- Mustang GT 5.0L
- Corvette C5
- MR2
- MX5 Miata
- Eclipse convertable
- Camaro Z28
- Mini Cooper S
Personally, I think the 944 gives WAY more bang for the buck than any of these. I personally liked the overall performance of the Boxster S more than the 944 or 951, but for the cost of one, I could buy four or five nice 951s. Not even remotely worth it until prices fall into line, IMO. The 944 is a fine car. Although I'm sure I'll eventually move into 986s and 911s, I'll always keep at least one of my 944s around. I like 'em that much.
Basis of comparison (other cars I've either driven or owned that I think the 944 beats for "smiles per gallon):
- Mustang GT 5.0L
- Corvette C5
- MR2
- MX5 Miata
- Eclipse convertable
- Camaro Z28
- Mini Cooper S
Personally, I think the 944 gives WAY more bang for the buck than any of these. I personally liked the overall performance of the Boxster S more than the 944 or 951, but for the cost of one, I could buy four or five nice 951s. Not even remotely worth it until prices fall into line, IMO. The 944 is a fine car. Although I'm sure I'll eventually move into 986s and 911s, I'll always keep at least one of my 944s around. I like 'em that much.
02-25-2006, 03:20 PM
#15
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I've wanted to own a Porsche since I was 8. Now I finally have a chance to. Last few years, I've been active the local Porsche club's DE events, so I knew that I wanted something that would handle well. My 944 doesn't dissapoint.
In high school, I worked on my old standard VW bug, and in college my VW Scirrocco. There seems to be some sort of 'sameness' in how it's put together between these and the 944. I can't really explain it except perhaps it's German engineering or something. This really helps, as I'm doing as much as I can DIY. It's the only way that I can afford to keep the car.
In high school, I worked on my old standard VW bug, and in college my VW Scirrocco. There seems to be some sort of 'sameness' in how it's put together between these and the 944. I can't really explain it except perhaps it's German engineering or something. This really helps, as I'm doing as much as I can DIY. It's the only way that I can afford to keep the car.