Best way to have my doors match my igniton key?
12-17-2007, 02:20 PM
#1
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Best way to have my doors match my igniton key?
When I bought my 951 it didn't have much of an ignition switch and it was one of the first things I replaced on the car. The only problem is I don't have any key for the doors or hatch and I know one of these days I'm going to accidently lock my car (or need to lock it) and I'll be SOL.
Does anyone know the most economical way to go about fixing this? Locksmith, new door handle lock cylinder? Is there a way I can re key them to match my igniton key? Is there a way for a locksmith to make a key for my doors without having to remove the door handles? I will if I have to , but they are the most frustrating things to replace IMO.
Does anyone know the most economical way to go about fixing this? Locksmith, new door handle lock cylinder? Is there a way I can re key them to match my igniton key? Is there a way for a locksmith to make a key for my doors without having to remove the door handles? I will if I have to , but they are the most frustrating things to replace IMO.
12-17-2007, 02:45 PM
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If the lock cylinders are out of the car, anything is possible. A locksmith would have no problem keing them to your ignition key, or, he can make a key for them.
You might consider just doing the hatch lock for now, since it's easier to get to and replace. Worst case, you'll be able to get in and unlock the doors.
You might consider just doing the hatch lock for now, since it's easier to get to and replace. Worst case, you'll be able to get in and unlock the doors.
12-17-2007, 05:57 PM
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12-24-2007, 12:10 PM
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This may help. I posted it on a UK forum very recently. It is an easy DIY job on the 924/S/944, no need for a locksmith.
I needed to return my '88 924S to using just one key for all locks. I have a good ignition lock and key and have set about re-jigging the rest. Just finished the tailgate lock. Very easy to stripdown, just a tiny rollpin holds it together. Good idea is to do a quick drawing of position of parts before you start and having got the pin out and top plate off, do another drawing showing how the coil spring is located. It is vital to get the long and short tangs in their correct position on re-assembly. Was able to remove the barrel even though using a 'wrong' key. The trick is to move the key in and out until you find a point that centralises the first one of the brass tumblers/sliders and the barrel will come out a bit, then move key again to find another 'centralising' point and the barrel moves again. Takes longer to describe than actually carry out.
VW /Porsche only use a small number of sliders so you can obtain a few spare ones from any eighties VW golf/polo/passat or old 924 lock. They are held in by a Phillips screw on some cars, small circlips on others. The main thing is that the sliders (more descriptive in this instance) are the same design within these locks.
If the barrel is greasy you should not find the sliders and tiny coil springs flying out.
Put the 'master' key in and look at which sliders are high or low. The aim is obviously to get them all with their tops flush with or just below the cylinder surface, meaning they match the key profile when inserted.
I found that 3 were correct straight away and it was then a matter of swapping high ones for low ones until most were level. If you have a small stock of spare sliders then you can select longer or shorter ones and try them. If you still have the odd one or two still high by, say, a millimetre - remove slider, clamp it in a soft jawed vice so it only just protrudes (if you have too much above the vice jaws they will bend, being thin brass) and with a fine file take off that fraction, keeping the radiused profile. Re-assemble and see if it now rotates in the housing. Put back together with a bit of fresh grease on the sliders and barrel assembly.
I will tackle the door locks next.
Incidentally, I decided to remove two old ignition locks from their housings in order to salvage some spare brass sliders. The VW Golf and 924 alloy housings have the same part number so I checked in a Haynes Golf (80's) manual for where to drill the hole to release the barrel from the housing. Guess what ? Haynes got it wrong yet again.
Having opened up this first (already damaged) housing with a small hacksaw I was able to take an accurate measurement. I then drilled two more housings to prove I had the spot.
Should you ever have to do it :-
Looking at the casting in plan view from above the dash and with the ignition barrel therefore projecting at 5 o'clock.
Measure 17 mm (Haynes wrongly says 10mm) anticlockwise from the very end of the projecting alloy ridge This ridge is about 3mm high and runs part of the way round the end of the ignition barrel opening in the casting. Scribe a line.
From the outermost edge of the casting (the 'join line' between the fixed casting and the rotating ignition barrel) measure in exactly 12mm down the scribed line, centre punch and drill a 3mm hole. The alloy is only about 1mm thick at this point so go gently. This will allow you to push down on a small spring-steel locking strip and at the same time pull out the barrel.
It is NOT a "spring pin" so clearly Haynes' engineer never actually did this operation .
The ignition barrel you have just removed actually has what I take to be a key code number stamped on the side followed by /85 or whatever year the lock was made. So in theory you could go to your Porsche dealer and order a key via this code. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
20 Dec. 2007
Have now done both door locks.
Relatively easy to get out. After removing door trim panel, take out the 3 short 8mm bolts that hold the black tin plate to gain access to the lock links within the door. 2 of these bolts are on the vertical channel for the glass, the third is through the inner skin of the door itself. Lever off the two plastic ball joints, one is translucent nylon colour, the second larger one will probably be black. Unscrew the single Phillips screw in the door - it goes into the back of the handle casting and both sides of the car are normal right-hand threads (some VW's use a left-hand thread ). Slide handle forward a bit, pull back part out of the opening a bit and then slide handle back to disengage front from slot.
I had two 1984 Golf handles that came with/matched the ignition barrel. Whereas the ignition barrel and alloy housing are identical - Golf/924 - the handles are not. Same basic outer handle but different external release lever (much smaller on Golf) and different internal fittings for operating the lock mechanism. BUT these parts are interchangeable if you want to go to the trouble of knocking out a couple of small pivot pins. Trim strips are different. 924S has black plastic strip with lugs that snap into a couple of holes along the recess. Golf has either stainless steel or black metal strips that clip into slots at either end of the recess.
More important is that the key barrels are identical, with the mechanism attached to it by a Phillips screw.
On the 924, undo this Phillips screw and using two small screwdrivers, prise off the inner 'end' disc that rotates with the barrel (it is a light press fit on the squared end of the barrel).
The next small slotted part just lifts off to reveal a coil spring with a tang on either side of a fixed lug. Lift off. The barrel is then free to remove/replace. Reverse procedure to assemble, putting grease on new barrel and a small blob on the coil spring. Oil pivot pins and refit to door.
I used the best Golf barrel as a straight swap because one stainless steel outer key-trim was mangled on the 924S.
Because the other Golf item had a similarly mangled key-trim, I just removed all the brass sliders, keeping them in order, and swapped them for the sliders in the good 924S lock.
So for now, all (bar the petrol cap) are on one key.
I needed to return my '88 924S to using just one key for all locks. I have a good ignition lock and key and have set about re-jigging the rest. Just finished the tailgate lock. Very easy to stripdown, just a tiny rollpin holds it together. Good idea is to do a quick drawing of position of parts before you start and having got the pin out and top plate off, do another drawing showing how the coil spring is located. It is vital to get the long and short tangs in their correct position on re-assembly. Was able to remove the barrel even though using a 'wrong' key. The trick is to move the key in and out until you find a point that centralises the first one of the brass tumblers/sliders and the barrel will come out a bit, then move key again to find another 'centralising' point and the barrel moves again. Takes longer to describe than actually carry out.
VW /Porsche only use a small number of sliders so you can obtain a few spare ones from any eighties VW golf/polo/passat or old 924 lock. They are held in by a Phillips screw on some cars, small circlips on others. The main thing is that the sliders (more descriptive in this instance) are the same design within these locks.
If the barrel is greasy you should not find the sliders and tiny coil springs flying out.
Put the 'master' key in and look at which sliders are high or low. The aim is obviously to get them all with their tops flush with or just below the cylinder surface, meaning they match the key profile when inserted.
I found that 3 were correct straight away and it was then a matter of swapping high ones for low ones until most were level. If you have a small stock of spare sliders then you can select longer or shorter ones and try them. If you still have the odd one or two still high by, say, a millimetre - remove slider, clamp it in a soft jawed vice so it only just protrudes (if you have too much above the vice jaws they will bend, being thin brass) and with a fine file take off that fraction, keeping the radiused profile. Re-assemble and see if it now rotates in the housing. Put back together with a bit of fresh grease on the sliders and barrel assembly.
I will tackle the door locks next.
Incidentally, I decided to remove two old ignition locks from their housings in order to salvage some spare brass sliders. The VW Golf and 924 alloy housings have the same part number so I checked in a Haynes Golf (80's) manual for where to drill the hole to release the barrel from the housing. Guess what ? Haynes got it wrong yet again.
Having opened up this first (already damaged) housing with a small hacksaw I was able to take an accurate measurement. I then drilled two more housings to prove I had the spot.
Should you ever have to do it :-
Looking at the casting in plan view from above the dash and with the ignition barrel therefore projecting at 5 o'clock.
Measure 17 mm (Haynes wrongly says 10mm) anticlockwise from the very end of the projecting alloy ridge This ridge is about 3mm high and runs part of the way round the end of the ignition barrel opening in the casting. Scribe a line.
From the outermost edge of the casting (the 'join line' between the fixed casting and the rotating ignition barrel) measure in exactly 12mm down the scribed line, centre punch and drill a 3mm hole. The alloy is only about 1mm thick at this point so go gently. This will allow you to push down on a small spring-steel locking strip and at the same time pull out the barrel.
It is NOT a "spring pin" so clearly Haynes' engineer never actually did this operation .
The ignition barrel you have just removed actually has what I take to be a key code number stamped on the side followed by /85 or whatever year the lock was made. So in theory you could go to your Porsche dealer and order a key via this code. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
20 Dec. 2007
Have now done both door locks.
Relatively easy to get out. After removing door trim panel, take out the 3 short 8mm bolts that hold the black tin plate to gain access to the lock links within the door. 2 of these bolts are on the vertical channel for the glass, the third is through the inner skin of the door itself. Lever off the two plastic ball joints, one is translucent nylon colour, the second larger one will probably be black. Unscrew the single Phillips screw in the door - it goes into the back of the handle casting and both sides of the car are normal right-hand threads (some VW's use a left-hand thread ). Slide handle forward a bit, pull back part out of the opening a bit and then slide handle back to disengage front from slot.
I had two 1984 Golf handles that came with/matched the ignition barrel. Whereas the ignition barrel and alloy housing are identical - Golf/924 - the handles are not. Same basic outer handle but different external release lever (much smaller on Golf) and different internal fittings for operating the lock mechanism. BUT these parts are interchangeable if you want to go to the trouble of knocking out a couple of small pivot pins. Trim strips are different. 924S has black plastic strip with lugs that snap into a couple of holes along the recess. Golf has either stainless steel or black metal strips that clip into slots at either end of the recess.
More important is that the key barrels are identical, with the mechanism attached to it by a Phillips screw.
On the 924, undo this Phillips screw and using two small screwdrivers, prise off the inner 'end' disc that rotates with the barrel (it is a light press fit on the squared end of the barrel).
The next small slotted part just lifts off to reveal a coil spring with a tang on either side of a fixed lug. Lift off. The barrel is then free to remove/replace. Reverse procedure to assemble, putting grease on new barrel and a small blob on the coil spring. Oil pivot pins and refit to door.
I used the best Golf barrel as a straight swap because one stainless steel outer key-trim was mangled on the 924S.
Because the other Golf item had a similarly mangled key-trim, I just removed all the brass sliders, keeping them in order, and swapped them for the sliders in the good 924S lock.
So for now, all (bar the petrol cap) are on one key.
12-28-2007, 02:39 PM
#10
DIY locksmithing
This is a pretty easy repair to do yourself. I had the exact same issue (though on a '83 944) and it only took about 45 min to pull, re-key, and replace the first lock; and about 10 minutes for the second one. I bought some extra wafers (tumblers) from the local locsmith who charged me $3 total for 2 of each wafer (there's 4 different sizes). I only ended up using 2, as the rest were reused and rearranged from my existing lock cores. Here's the walkthrough:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarti...lock_rekey.htm
Good luck.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarti...lock_rekey.htm
Good luck.
12-29-2007, 02:11 AM
#11
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What about cutting one side of the key for the ignition and the other side for the doors? Or do both sides have to match?
It works on Kawasaki double sided keys.
It works on Kawasaki double sided keys.