Drivers side sticks out further than passengers side...
07-13-2005, 06:08 PM
#31
Instructor
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: SouthEast Asia
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by sm
I saw you on Nonantum Road a couple of weeks ago. Car's looking good!
Which shop did you take your car to?
Which shop did you take your car to?
Yeah I drive on that road almost every day .. from work. I go on the Pike in the morning
I took the car to a body shop in Allston (Glenville Terrace Auto Body) because I've known the guy for a while. Right now they are ordering the shocks and they are going to grind down some "sealant material" that's preventing them from rolling the lip any further.
I was about to just pick up my car and take it somewhere else but I'll give them another chance. I kinda need that car back soon...
As to where the tire rubs.. I have no idea. I'm guessing in front (9 o'clock ish) of the tire.
It has some negative camber but not too much from the looks of it. The rear is sagging a bit..
Some pictures - what do u think? The rear's lower than it should be?
http://24.60.114.248:2000/Porsche951/cups/
07-14-2005, 11:02 AM
#32
Pro
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 577
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Remove the rear hatch carpet and inspect the cubbies over the wheels for prior body damage. I have seen wrinkles in the metal over the wheels (should be smooth) and holes with dried body filler coming through where the panel was pulled out after a hit. Either way it's tough to even out the rear fenders after an accident.
07-14-2005, 01:26 PM
#33
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,953
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Holson
Some pictures - what do u think? The rear's lower than it should be?
http://24.60.114.248:2000/Porsche951/cups/
http://24.60.114.248:2000/Porsche951/cups/
Flight 951- I lost my HD a few months ago w/a BUNCH of porsche pics... Do you have any pics of your car (velvet red)? I'll send you a PM w/my e-mail addy right now, &, IF you do, could you please send me over a few...? I already snagged a few of Holson's....
thanks....
07-15-2005, 01:56 AM
#34
Rennlist Member
So hold the phone... lets get the facts straight here.
'86 951, not a turbo S so the fenders are not rolled. When 951's rub in the driver rear, they typically rub between 9pm and 11pm areas of the fender. Just to clarify, is that where the body shop is rolling the fender?
On my '86 I'm running 9X17" rims all around with 245/40/17. If the driver rear wasn't already ground down, they would def rub there. Your tire size 255/40/17 has been fitted to many a 951 before so either the body shop isn't griding down the right spots of the fender lip, or you have something awry in the suspension as it compresses.
The pictures all look perfectly fine. Very artistic, even.
As for the difference in gap, I would just use spacers to even it out. I'm sure some would consider that heresy and that something should be adjusted but out of the numerous 951's I've ever seen, every single one has had the same difference in gap. To differing degrees but they all have it.
Hey Robby, I did read that stoptech article. It's interesting but the one thing they fail to discuss is pad compounds. I think you know that I'm a firm believer that what truly makes a difference in stopping distances is not bigger calipers, bigger rotors, etc. In the end it's all about the pad compound. And I've yet to see a pad compound that truly does it all. i.e. a pad that will stop a car 60-0 really well that is also a good track pad, etc.
Not to take this conversation off track (feel free to PM me if you want to talk about it more) but for all we know in the stoptech article, they used a much better pad compound in the stoptech kits compared to the OEM setups. However, they do provide good data on front/rear bias and some other things. My issue with StopTech is that they do know what they're talking about but they only talk about the kinds of things that will sell their kits. Which isn't lying, per se, but it leaves a lot of data off the table.
'86 951, not a turbo S so the fenders are not rolled. When 951's rub in the driver rear, they typically rub between 9pm and 11pm areas of the fender. Just to clarify, is that where the body shop is rolling the fender?
On my '86 I'm running 9X17" rims all around with 245/40/17. If the driver rear wasn't already ground down, they would def rub there. Your tire size 255/40/17 has been fitted to many a 951 before so either the body shop isn't griding down the right spots of the fender lip, or you have something awry in the suspension as it compresses.
The pictures all look perfectly fine. Very artistic, even.
As for the difference in gap, I would just use spacers to even it out. I'm sure some would consider that heresy and that something should be adjusted but out of the numerous 951's I've ever seen, every single one has had the same difference in gap. To differing degrees but they all have it.
Hey Robby, I did read that stoptech article. It's interesting but the one thing they fail to discuss is pad compounds. I think you know that I'm a firm believer that what truly makes a difference in stopping distances is not bigger calipers, bigger rotors, etc. In the end it's all about the pad compound. And I've yet to see a pad compound that truly does it all. i.e. a pad that will stop a car 60-0 really well that is also a good track pad, etc.
Not to take this conversation off track (feel free to PM me if you want to talk about it more) but for all we know in the stoptech article, they used a much better pad compound in the stoptech kits compared to the OEM setups. However, they do provide good data on front/rear bias and some other things. My issue with StopTech is that they do know what they're talking about but they only talk about the kinds of things that will sell their kits. Which isn't lying, per se, but it leaves a lot of data off the table.
07-15-2005, 05:45 AM
#35
Race Director
Well... there are MANY factors that influence braking distances, consistency and feel/control. Larger rotors do help in that you get better leverage on the wheel and modulation is easier due to a lower pedal force for the same braking-effort. Larger brakes have more mass so they heat up less for the same braking force as well, which may not make that big of a deal on the 1st full-effort braking, but after the 10th stop from 160mph, you'll probably notice it. In the end, it's the tyre's contact patch on the ground that generates the deceleration forces and I've found that sticky R-compound tyres makes the biggest improvement in braking distances, about 15-18ft.
Back to the fender issue, Hugh may be onto something here. Is the shop rolling the fenders in the right place? Here's where it rubs on my '86 951 when I upgraded to 16x10.5" HRE wheels with 245/45-16 tyres (I had actually used the 21mm rear-spacer from the '82-85 944NA as well):
The point of contact is about 30-45 degrees up from directly ahead of the tyre. Note that I made little cuts into the fender-lip so that it folds up 90-degrees flush against the outer fender without having to stretch the metal. Also the baseball bat trick CANNOT fold the lip 90-degrees up without flaring out your fender. It ends up flaring the lip up 45-degrees and flares the fender out 45-degrees. This is because of the thickness of the material.
I used a 1/4" thick 6" long plate of aluminium which I clamped on the outside to keep the fender-surface flat and squeezed up the lip with large channel-lock pliers. The plate spreads the force out and keeps the outer fender steady while the jaws of the pliers squeeze up the lip about 1/2" at a time. Work slowly and keep your arms steady so that only one jaw, the one on the inner lip moves outward.
After I folded the lip up flush, there was some rough surfaces from the cuts and squeezing, so I smoothed out the inner surface with a grinder:
You end up with TWICE as much clearance as going from the Turbo to TurboS fenders. This allowed me to use a 275/40-17 tyre on a 17x11.5" rim. If that shop can't get a 17x9" wheel with 255/40-17s to fit, find someone else that can roll a fender properly (they may even be doing it in the wrong spot, directly above the tyre is not where it rubs). The taller 275/40-17 tyre does rub direclty ahead on the fender where it curves inward down towards the rocker panels, but that's because it's 25.7" diameter instead of 24.9" like the standard tyres. A proper-diameter 295/30-18 tyre on 18x12" rims fits just fine with no rubbing.
"Exactly how do you adjust the front crossmember? There isn’t any adjustment for lateral movement, the front holes are slotted only for slight rotational movement."
There's only one hole that's perfectly round. This is the pilot hole that you install a bolt into first (loosely). The other three holes are slotted and this allows the crossmember to pivot around the 1st hole. On my car, it was pulled back about 1/4" too much, so when I installed my engine, I made sure push the crossmember as far forward as I can before tightening down the bolts on that side. Not sure that made much of a difference, the alignment would just be such that the car was crabbing a little and end up understeering in right-handers and oversteer in left corners, but corner-weighting differences are probably more significant.
Back to the fender issue, Hugh may be onto something here. Is the shop rolling the fenders in the right place? Here's where it rubs on my '86 951 when I upgraded to 16x10.5" HRE wheels with 245/45-16 tyres (I had actually used the 21mm rear-spacer from the '82-85 944NA as well):
The point of contact is about 30-45 degrees up from directly ahead of the tyre. Note that I made little cuts into the fender-lip so that it folds up 90-degrees flush against the outer fender without having to stretch the metal. Also the baseball bat trick CANNOT fold the lip 90-degrees up without flaring out your fender. It ends up flaring the lip up 45-degrees and flares the fender out 45-degrees. This is because of the thickness of the material.
I used a 1/4" thick 6" long plate of aluminium which I clamped on the outside to keep the fender-surface flat and squeezed up the lip with large channel-lock pliers. The plate spreads the force out and keeps the outer fender steady while the jaws of the pliers squeeze up the lip about 1/2" at a time. Work slowly and keep your arms steady so that only one jaw, the one on the inner lip moves outward.
After I folded the lip up flush, there was some rough surfaces from the cuts and squeezing, so I smoothed out the inner surface with a grinder:
You end up with TWICE as much clearance as going from the Turbo to TurboS fenders. This allowed me to use a 275/40-17 tyre on a 17x11.5" rim. If that shop can't get a 17x9" wheel with 255/40-17s to fit, find someone else that can roll a fender properly (they may even be doing it in the wrong spot, directly above the tyre is not where it rubs). The taller 275/40-17 tyre does rub direclty ahead on the fender where it curves inward down towards the rocker panels, but that's because it's 25.7" diameter instead of 24.9" like the standard tyres. A proper-diameter 295/30-18 tyre on 18x12" rims fits just fine with no rubbing.
"Exactly how do you adjust the front crossmember? There isn’t any adjustment for lateral movement, the front holes are slotted only for slight rotational movement."
There's only one hole that's perfectly round. This is the pilot hole that you install a bolt into first (loosely). The other three holes are slotted and this allows the crossmember to pivot around the 1st hole. On my car, it was pulled back about 1/4" too much, so when I installed my engine, I made sure push the crossmember as far forward as I can before tightening down the bolts on that side. Not sure that made much of a difference, the alignment would just be such that the car was crabbing a little and end up understeering in right-handers and oversteer in left corners, but corner-weighting differences are probably more significant.
Last edited by Danno; 07-15-2005 at 06:03 AM.
07-15-2005, 02:01 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
Danno - All true about the braking. Robby's particular interest has usually been 60-0 and as far as I know, 1-3 attempts. Nothing like track braking. Sort of a "why does my rental car stop better than my 951" conversation. So that assumes everything is cold in typical street conditions vs 160-80 for 30 mins at the track type of braking situations.
So back to the business as hand. Where is the body shop rolling the fender?
So back to the business as hand. Where is the body shop rolling the fender?
07-15-2005, 02:05 PM
#37
Instructor
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: SouthEast Asia
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The body shop is Glenville Terrace Auto Body in Allston, MA just off Harvard Ave.
I talked to the owner and he told me that he noticed that it rubs from 9-11 o'clock positon.
Thanks much for the pictures and suggestions guys, definitely got the idea now.
BTW, I didn't know there was such a thing as a 16x10.5" wheel...
I talked to the owner and he told me that he noticed that it rubs from 9-11 o'clock positon.
Thanks much for the pictures and suggestions guys, definitely got the idea now.
BTW, I didn't know there was such a thing as a 16x10.5" wheel...
07-15-2005, 03:44 PM
#38
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,953
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by ninefiveone
Danno - All true about the braking. Robby's particular interest has usually been 60-0 and as far as I know, 1-3 attempts. Nothing like track braking. Sort of a "why does my rental car stop better than my 951" conversation. So that assumes everything is cold in typical street conditions vs 160-80 for 30 mins at the track type of braking situations.
Danno- good to see you man... nice info on the fenders- sounds like I may need to do something like that to my car to run larger rear wheels- I'm hoping to get a 285/35/18 back there- that's pretty big- about the same RD as the 275/40/17 you listed.... I would be fine w/a 275/35/18, but, not sure what to put up front then... even considering 17's up front, but, crunching #'s on RD & profile, etc, is tough in those staggered sizes- especially when the front doesn't NEED a larger RD to fill the fender out- only the rear really needs this....
07-23-2005, 05:31 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
I have 295 30 18 on the rear and passanger side clears the fender, but drivers side sticks out about a half inch, so i plan on removeing the 1 1/2 spacer on that side and putting just a 1 in on there. Gonna try and replace the rear suspension too to reduce body roll.
Rubbing only occurs when I am going in excess speeds taking a turn or hit a giant bump
Rubbing only occurs when I am going in excess speeds taking a turn or hit a giant bump