Group Buy (CLOSED): Stage 8 locking CV bolts, Round 2
03-18-2010, 10:11 AM
#1
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Group Buy (CLOSED): Stage 8 locking CV bolts, Round 2
Back by popular demand!
We are pleased to announce that Stage8 has extended the 25% discount pricing with no minimums on the participant list! They were so stoked at the huge participation of the first round group buy (110 orders, not counting extras!!!) that they have extended the special group buy pricing to our second round, which will run from now through 15 April 2010.
Pricing
MSRP = $106 per set of 24 bolts, clips & retainers
Group Buy discount = 25% off MSRP
Group Buy Price = $79.50
Shipping*: US = $6; Canada = $12.45; ROW = $14.45
*Note: Shipping is via USPS priority mail small flat rate box. We can fit up to two full sets in one box; add'l quantities will result in slightly higher shipping costs.
Ordering
I have set up a special application guide and group buy ordering page on my website:
To order => http://garage.ideola.com/prod-Stage8-GB.html
Please order through this page if possible. Otherwise, send me a PM with the details of your order and I will invoice you via paypal.
Specifications
• Bolts Are Aircraft Quality Grade 12.9 – 4130 Alloy Steel
• Retainers are 5052-H32 Polished Aluminum
• Snap Rings & Clips Are Spring Steel
Background & Product Details
For those that missed the first round, here is a repeat of the details. I worked with Stage8 to develop a locking CV bolt kit for the entire range of 924-944-968 cars. After the first round, we now can offer applications for the entire range of 914, 911, and 928!
The 924-944-968 application utilize twenty-four M8x48 cheesehead bolts to attach the half shafts at the transaxle stub axles and the outer hubs (six bolts per CV joint). As many of you know, the cheese head bolts are a royal PITA to deal with and will strip out if you're not careful. And for track driven cars, there have been multiple reports of the bolts backing out mid-session with catastrophic results. Many guys are safety wiring their bolts, and this was the approach I was planning to take on my UWB project until a 924board member mentioned Stage8 (for a header bolt application).
The Stage8 system utilizes their patented "GrooveLok" bolt, which has a 12-point head and a special groove in the head. Once the fastener is torqued down, any number of clip shapes are available, which lock onto the 12-point bolt head, and are then retained using either an E-clip or snap ring. Here are some photos using the samples they sent to me installed on a late offset 944 CV joint, boot, and outer stub axle:
M8x65 GrooveLok bolt (the standard 924-944-968 size would be M8x50)
Teardrop and D-Style clips; snap ring and E-style retainers
D-style clips installed, E-style retainer on left, no retainer on the right (I didn't have a spring plier small enough at home)
Teardrop retainers installed (again, no spring clips, but they would normally have the spring clips installed)
Questions? Interest? Let me know!
We are pleased to announce that Stage8 has extended the 25% discount pricing with no minimums on the participant list! They were so stoked at the huge participation of the first round group buy (110 orders, not counting extras!!!) that they have extended the special group buy pricing to our second round, which will run from now through 15 April 2010.
Pricing
MSRP = $106 per set of 24 bolts, clips & retainers
Group Buy discount = 25% off MSRP
Group Buy Price = $79.50
Shipping*: US = $6; Canada = $12.45; ROW = $14.45
*Note: Shipping is via USPS priority mail small flat rate box. We can fit up to two full sets in one box; add'l quantities will result in slightly higher shipping costs.
Ordering
I have set up a special application guide and group buy ordering page on my website:
To order => http://garage.ideola.com/prod-Stage8-GB.html
Please order through this page if possible. Otherwise, send me a PM with the details of your order and I will invoice you via paypal.
Specifications
• Bolts Are Aircraft Quality Grade 12.9 – 4130 Alloy Steel
• Retainers are 5052-H32 Polished Aluminum
• Snap Rings & Clips Are Spring Steel
Background & Product Details
For those that missed the first round, here is a repeat of the details. I worked with Stage8 to develop a locking CV bolt kit for the entire range of 924-944-968 cars. After the first round, we now can offer applications for the entire range of 914, 911, and 928!
The 924-944-968 application utilize twenty-four M8x48 cheesehead bolts to attach the half shafts at the transaxle stub axles and the outer hubs (six bolts per CV joint). As many of you know, the cheese head bolts are a royal PITA to deal with and will strip out if you're not careful. And for track driven cars, there have been multiple reports of the bolts backing out mid-session with catastrophic results. Many guys are safety wiring their bolts, and this was the approach I was planning to take on my UWB project until a 924board member mentioned Stage8 (for a header bolt application).
The Stage8 system utilizes their patented "GrooveLok" bolt, which has a 12-point head and a special groove in the head. Once the fastener is torqued down, any number of clip shapes are available, which lock onto the 12-point bolt head, and are then retained using either an E-clip or snap ring. Here are some photos using the samples they sent to me installed on a late offset 944 CV joint, boot, and outer stub axle:
M8x65 GrooveLok bolt (the standard 924-944-968 size would be M8x50)
Teardrop and D-Style clips; snap ring and E-style retainers
D-style clips installed, E-style retainer on left, no retainer on the right (I didn't have a spring plier small enough at home)
Teardrop retainers installed (again, no spring clips, but they would normally have the spring clips installed)
Questions? Interest? Let me know!
Last edited by ideola; 05-18-2010 at 10:06 AM.
03-20-2010, 01:17 PM
#4
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Answers to a few questions that have come in:
Q: Are the bolts re-usable?
A: YES, absolutely. They are made of 12.9 grade steel.
Q: Looks like I need a special tool to install these?
A: NO, all that is required is a standard 12-point 8mm or 10mm socket. It is highly recommended to use a high-quality socket, as some of the el-cheapos don't provide good engagement at the opening of the socket. Standard snap ring pliers are all that's required for the retainers.
Q: I see that Stage8 provides E-style retainers, and those seem easier to install. Can I order them?
A: Stage8 strongly recommends the use of snap rings for moving applications such as CV joints due to the full circle engagement, even though the risk of losing an E-style retainer is very small.
Q: Are the E-style retainers interchangeable with the snap rings?
A: NO, the E-style retainers require a wider groove in the GrooveLok bolt, so the bolts must be machined differently.
Q: I see that Stage8 offers Teardrop style retainers. Can I order them?
A: SORT OF(!). For the group buy, I am limiting the bolt configuration to D-style clips and snap ring retainers to help simplify the ordering, production, and fulfillment process. However, if you really want some teardrop style retainers, at the bottom of the Application Guide page, you may order 6-paks of extra clips in either the D- or Teardrop shape ($3 per pak less 25%)
Q: I'm worried about losing a bolt or retainer set. How do I get more if I lose one?
A: At the bottom of the Application Guide page, you may order 6-paks of extra bolts ($26 less 25% per 6-count), clips ($3 less 25% per 6-count), and retainers ($3 less 25% per 6-count)
Q: Are the bolts re-usable?
A: YES, absolutely. They are made of 12.9 grade steel.
Q: Looks like I need a special tool to install these?
A: NO, all that is required is a standard 12-point 8mm or 10mm socket. It is highly recommended to use a high-quality socket, as some of the el-cheapos don't provide good engagement at the opening of the socket. Standard snap ring pliers are all that's required for the retainers.
Q: I see that Stage8 provides E-style retainers, and those seem easier to install. Can I order them?
A: Stage8 strongly recommends the use of snap rings for moving applications such as CV joints due to the full circle engagement, even though the risk of losing an E-style retainer is very small.
Q: Are the E-style retainers interchangeable with the snap rings?
A: NO, the E-style retainers require a wider groove in the GrooveLok bolt, so the bolts must be machined differently.
Q: I see that Stage8 offers Teardrop style retainers. Can I order them?
A: SORT OF(!). For the group buy, I am limiting the bolt configuration to D-style clips and snap ring retainers to help simplify the ordering, production, and fulfillment process. However, if you really want some teardrop style retainers, at the bottom of the Application Guide page, you may order 6-paks of extra clips in either the D- or Teardrop shape ($3 per pak less 25%)
Q: I'm worried about losing a bolt or retainer set. How do I get more if I lose one?
A: At the bottom of the Application Guide page, you may order 6-paks of extra bolts ($26 less 25% per 6-count), clips ($3 less 25% per 6-count), and retainers ($3 less 25% per 6-count)
03-20-2010, 11:14 PM
#5
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I'm not sure simply using a stronger bolt that won't stretch in a stretch-bolt application is a sound idea from a mechanical engineering point of view. Certainly I wouldn't try this replacing the stretch bolts that hold on the flywheel with a stronger "re-usable" non-streching bolt, for example.
Any further comments on this issue?
03-21-2010, 05:37 AM
#6
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Actually, Stage8 make non-stretch flywheel bolts for other applications. Some of them on massive industrial equipment.
Regarding the material, the 12.9 makes them reusable. The locking mechanism makes them idiot proof from an installation perspective.
What I know is that there are a LOT of guys tracking cars with this CV design that have had issues with OEM units backing out. Some of these individuals are people I know personally, so I am familiar with their trackday prep and regimen...some have reported that the issue continues even when using loctite, and the only solution they found that prevented the bolts from backing out was safety wire (this was before the Stage8 bolts were available for our cars). As someone eloquently noted, the thing about safety wire is that it's either installed 100% correct or 100% wrong! When compared to safety wire, I think it's hard to argue against the Stage8 design.
And given the minimal cost of these with respect to an entire race budget, I'm having a hard time understanding the why anyone would be dismissive of them. With the Stage8 design, there's no way the bolt is going to break or back out. Seems like cheap insurance to me.
Regarding the material, the 12.9 makes them reusable. The locking mechanism makes them idiot proof from an installation perspective.
What I know is that there are a LOT of guys tracking cars with this CV design that have had issues with OEM units backing out. Some of these individuals are people I know personally, so I am familiar with their trackday prep and regimen...some have reported that the issue continues even when using loctite, and the only solution they found that prevented the bolts from backing out was safety wire (this was before the Stage8 bolts were available for our cars). As someone eloquently noted, the thing about safety wire is that it's either installed 100% correct or 100% wrong! When compared to safety wire, I think it's hard to argue against the Stage8 design.
And given the minimal cost of these with respect to an entire race budget, I'm having a hard time understanding the why anyone would be dismissive of them. With the Stage8 design, there's no way the bolt is going to break or back out. Seems like cheap insurance to me.
03-21-2010, 05:50 AM
#7
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Yes, but I was thinking about whether it's valid from a mech eng point of view replacing the stretch bolts in a particular application where stretch bolts are specified with non stretch bolts. From my imperfect understanding of the subject, the stretch of the bolt is part of the holding characteristics.
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03-21-2010, 06:47 AM
#8
Rennlist Member
Yes, but I was thinking about whether it's valid from a mech eng point of view replacing the stretch bolts in a particular application where stretch bolts are specified with non stretch bolts. From my imperfect understanding of the subject, the stretch of the bolt is part of the holding characteristics.
When they back out, the stretch properties are past any holding consideration, don't you think? They just fall out!
Interestingly, I haven't had these issues with the S2 or 951, though.
03-22-2010, 01:47 AM
#10
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Dan,
They look great in hand. Got mine last week, and posted a couple of links for ya on the 944hybrids Forum.
Now I can chisel out the old bolts the PO destroyed...
Thanks again,
Greg
They look great in hand. Got mine last week, and posted a couple of links for ya on the 944hybrids Forum.
Now I can chisel out the old bolts the PO destroyed...
Thanks again,
Greg
Last edited by gt1scca; 03-25-2010 at 05:54 AM.
03-24-2010, 07:26 AM
#12
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
I received the 20th order last night, so I will be placing the first batch order with Stage8 later this afternoon. Anyone wishing to be included in the first batch order, please get your orders in before 5 PM EDT today.
04-01-2010, 11:24 AM
#14
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
We're up to 18 orders for the 2nd batch order in round 2. I'm going to place the 2nd batch order tomorrow, so anybody wanting in on this batch, please get your orders in by 5 PM EDT tomorrow. Thanks!
04-12-2010, 09:34 AM
#15
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
UPDATE:
Spoke with Stage8 on Friday. Batch 1 may ship to me by the end of this week, Batch 2 probably not until the end of next week at the soonest.
There's still time to get in on this...original closing date was thru Tax Day...we'll go ahead and extend it thru the weekend: Sunday 18 Apr 2010.
Spoke with Stage8 on Friday. Batch 1 may ship to me by the end of this week, Batch 2 probably not until the end of next week at the soonest.
There's still time to get in on this...original closing date was thru Tax Day...we'll go ahead and extend it thru the weekend: Sunday 18 Apr 2010.