in case of engine failure...
10-13-2010, 11:10 AM
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in case of engine failure...
for the younger guys who are new to the forum, if you ever end up with a blown engine,
there's always the option of going to a V8 engine.
the Texas DPS (state troopers) were running LS1 Camaros for many years. of course there's tens of thousands of LS1 cores floating around everywhere that can be rebuilt. i don't see why something like this 400 hp rebuilt LS2 couldn't turn out to be a great motor.... the power is just about near the upper limits of what the drivelines in our cars can support.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-R...Q5fAccessories
or this w/ 57K mile.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/06-Ch...Q5fAccessories
why an LS2 instead of an LS3 ? no preference really but, it seems there might be more LS2 cores available....
i wasn't able to find any LS3s for less than about 9 grand.
as most of you know i like this write up about the [V8 vs other engine designs] that new members to the forum might enjoy...
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/v8s-rule/
V8′s Rule!
By Bob Elton on July 25, 2006
All cars should have a V8...
For one thing, the modern eight cylinder engine is inherently balanced; it has completely overlapping power impulses. In other words, one cylinder fires before the previous cylinder has finished contributing, creating a much smoother power delivery with fewer impulses. That’s why a V8 can use the same drivetrain components as a much smaller four cylinder engine with half the displacement. There is no need for secondary balance shafts, and no unpleasant vibrations to annoy the passengers and reduce the life of the exhaust system and other accessories. It’s the smoothest engine configuration money can buy.
In contrast, inline four cylinder engines are inherently unbalanced. Because of the geometry of the crankshaft and rods within the engine, fours shake in both the horizontal and vertical planes. There’s only one way to mitigate the effect: add unbalanced shafts to create counter-vibrations. This “fix” adds weight, complexity and cost. Even so, the inherent vibrations from a four cylinder engine wreak havoc on accessories and require extra mass in all the mounting brackets and related parts. In fact, by the time a four cylinder engine is tamed, it weighs and costs almost as much as a V8. And the customer still suffers the noise and vibration penalties that come from skimping on cylinders.
V6’s also have inherent imbalances, though not nearly as severe as a four. Depending on the block angle, V6 engine operation creates vertical or horizontal forces. The most sophisticated V6 engines also have balance shafts, again adding to complexity, cost and weight. Fives, threes and twos have even worse vibrations, some beyond simple analysis. V10’s add the vibrations of two five cylinder engines together, which is better at some speeds, worse at others. Turbocharging or supercharging four or six cylinder engines to get to V8 power levels simply adds more complexity and weight to an already challenged engine design, and sacrifices the low end torque of a naturally aspirated powerplant. (Just ask Mercedes’ AMG division, who’ve recently switched from supercharged eights and sixes normally aspirated 6.3-liter V8's.)
Odd numbers of cylinders, like three or five, are inevitably the result of cost-cutting. Sometimes there’s no time or money to tool for a smaller engine, so a few cylinders are lopped off an existing engine. That’s why GM’s lackluster small pickup trucks and the Hummer H3 sport a five cylinder engine. Ten cylinder engines, currently deployed in Vipers and some Dodge and Ford trucks, are another cost-cutting move. Engine not powerful enough? Add two more similar cylinders and call it good.
The provision of V12 engines in luxury cars is even more perverse. V12’s are no smoother than a V8 and add (you guessed it) weight, complication and cost. While that may be the manufacturer’s intent, it still makes little engineering sense. Jaguar gave up on V12’s a while ago. Aston Martin passed on their V12 to offer a V8 in their latest car. In fact, thanks to the V8’s relatively light weight, good power output and compact packaging, the engine configuration is, belatedly, making gains in the European market. BMW, Mercedes, Volvo and Audi all offer Euro-spec V8 passenger cars.
Once you’ve committed to a V8, there are a lot of reasons for making it a pushrod. A single camshaft simplifies a lot of things, and the narrow heads associated with pushrod engines allow greater flexibility in vehicle packaging. Thus smaller cars can enjoy a V8 engine. Before the outraged techno-comments start dropping at the feet of this post, it should be noted that the most powerful racing engines in the world are pushrod V8s, with two valve heads to boot. Some of the fastest cars you can buy in America have pushrod, two valve V8’s. The Chevrolet Corvette is only the most prominent example.
So why don’t all cars have V8’s? The answer lies in marketing, rather than engineering. Marketing has declared that V8 engines are best suited to high-end, high performance cars, while the masses should get by with “economical” fours and sixes. The public now believes that V8 means bad mileage. The opposite is true– at least potentially.
Mileage depends on several factors: the weight of the car, drive ratios, and how fast you go. Engine size and cylinder count have little to do with it. Of course, bigger engines encourage people to accelerate and drive faster, but that’s not the engine’s fault. And new technology is mooting the V8 as gas-guzzler argument. Multi-displacement systems (a fancy way of saying that four cylinders go on vacation when not needed) have the potential to dramatically increase V8 mileage under light load conditions.
In short, for pistonheads at least, the five saddest words in the English language are still “I could’ve had a V8”.
/
there's always the option of going to a V8 engine.
the Texas DPS (state troopers) were running LS1 Camaros for many years. of course there's tens of thousands of LS1 cores floating around everywhere that can be rebuilt. i don't see why something like this 400 hp rebuilt LS2 couldn't turn out to be a great motor.... the power is just about near the upper limits of what the drivelines in our cars can support.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-R...Q5fAccessories
or this w/ 57K mile.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/06-Ch...Q5fAccessories
why an LS2 instead of an LS3 ? no preference really but, it seems there might be more LS2 cores available....
i wasn't able to find any LS3s for less than about 9 grand.
as most of you know i like this write up about the [V8 vs other engine designs] that new members to the forum might enjoy...
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/v8s-rule/
V8′s Rule!
By Bob Elton on July 25, 2006
All cars should have a V8...
For one thing, the modern eight cylinder engine is inherently balanced; it has completely overlapping power impulses. In other words, one cylinder fires before the previous cylinder has finished contributing, creating a much smoother power delivery with fewer impulses. That’s why a V8 can use the same drivetrain components as a much smaller four cylinder engine with half the displacement. There is no need for secondary balance shafts, and no unpleasant vibrations to annoy the passengers and reduce the life of the exhaust system and other accessories. It’s the smoothest engine configuration money can buy.
In contrast, inline four cylinder engines are inherently unbalanced. Because of the geometry of the crankshaft and rods within the engine, fours shake in both the horizontal and vertical planes. There’s only one way to mitigate the effect: add unbalanced shafts to create counter-vibrations. This “fix” adds weight, complexity and cost. Even so, the inherent vibrations from a four cylinder engine wreak havoc on accessories and require extra mass in all the mounting brackets and related parts. In fact, by the time a four cylinder engine is tamed, it weighs and costs almost as much as a V8. And the customer still suffers the noise and vibration penalties that come from skimping on cylinders.
V6’s also have inherent imbalances, though not nearly as severe as a four. Depending on the block angle, V6 engine operation creates vertical or horizontal forces. The most sophisticated V6 engines also have balance shafts, again adding to complexity, cost and weight. Fives, threes and twos have even worse vibrations, some beyond simple analysis. V10’s add the vibrations of two five cylinder engines together, which is better at some speeds, worse at others. Turbocharging or supercharging four or six cylinder engines to get to V8 power levels simply adds more complexity and weight to an already challenged engine design, and sacrifices the low end torque of a naturally aspirated powerplant. (Just ask Mercedes’ AMG division, who’ve recently switched from supercharged eights and sixes normally aspirated 6.3-liter V8's.)
Odd numbers of cylinders, like three or five, are inevitably the result of cost-cutting. Sometimes there’s no time or money to tool for a smaller engine, so a few cylinders are lopped off an existing engine. That’s why GM’s lackluster small pickup trucks and the Hummer H3 sport a five cylinder engine. Ten cylinder engines, currently deployed in Vipers and some Dodge and Ford trucks, are another cost-cutting move. Engine not powerful enough? Add two more similar cylinders and call it good.
The provision of V12 engines in luxury cars is even more perverse. V12’s are no smoother than a V8 and add (you guessed it) weight, complication and cost. While that may be the manufacturer’s intent, it still makes little engineering sense. Jaguar gave up on V12’s a while ago. Aston Martin passed on their V12 to offer a V8 in their latest car. In fact, thanks to the V8’s relatively light weight, good power output and compact packaging, the engine configuration is, belatedly, making gains in the European market. BMW, Mercedes, Volvo and Audi all offer Euro-spec V8 passenger cars.
Once you’ve committed to a V8, there are a lot of reasons for making it a pushrod. A single camshaft simplifies a lot of things, and the narrow heads associated with pushrod engines allow greater flexibility in vehicle packaging. Thus smaller cars can enjoy a V8 engine. Before the outraged techno-comments start dropping at the feet of this post, it should be noted that the most powerful racing engines in the world are pushrod V8s, with two valve heads to boot. Some of the fastest cars you can buy in America have pushrod, two valve V8’s. The Chevrolet Corvette is only the most prominent example.
So why don’t all cars have V8’s? The answer lies in marketing, rather than engineering. Marketing has declared that V8 engines are best suited to high-end, high performance cars, while the masses should get by with “economical” fours and sixes. The public now believes that V8 means bad mileage. The opposite is true– at least potentially.
Mileage depends on several factors: the weight of the car, drive ratios, and how fast you go. Engine size and cylinder count have little to do with it. Of course, bigger engines encourage people to accelerate and drive faster, but that’s not the engine’s fault. And new technology is mooting the V8 as gas-guzzler argument. Multi-displacement systems (a fancy way of saying that four cylinders go on vacation when not needed) have the potential to dramatically increase V8 mileage under light load conditions.
In short, for pistonheads at least, the five saddest words in the English language are still “I could’ve had a V8”.
/
Last edited by odurandina; 10-13-2010 at 12:00 PM.
10-13-2010, 11:47 AM
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Hmm. The price is based on a core exchange. They don't say that the core engine has to be another LS. It would be a hoot to see how they'd react to getting a blown 2.5L Porsche motor!
10-13-2010, 12:10 PM
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10-13-2010, 12:26 PM
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from 9 days ago... lol.
in line engines have good torque. but other than that, the 4 cylinder engine is a disaster......
two cylinders going up and two coming down. total disaster.
on the long highway drives i've made all summer i can never help but notice how loud the 4 cylinder engine is...
no... not talking about the exhaust note which is hard enough to remedy....
i'm talking just about the vibrations. the engine just turns the whole dam car into a low droning maraca.
a V6 six cylinder engine is a disaster of a different flavor. so little torque.
so Porsche makes these engines that spin at 5,000 rpm before they start making power.... okay that's great and all. but just ask all the Cayman and 996 owners who've expericenced engine failures (to go along with all the good Porsche Turbo/GT2/GT3 engines).
the only designs that are any good are v8s, and v12s. auto manufacturers built them forever.
.
two cylinders going up and two coming down. total disaster.
on the long highway drives i've made all summer i can never help but notice how loud the 4 cylinder engine is...
no... not talking about the exhaust note which is hard enough to remedy....
i'm talking just about the vibrations. the engine just turns the whole dam car into a low droning maraca.
a V6 six cylinder engine is a disaster of a different flavor. so little torque.
so Porsche makes these engines that spin at 5,000 rpm before they start making power.... okay that's great and all. but just ask all the Cayman and 996 owners who've expericenced engine failures (to go along with all the good Porsche Turbo/GT2/GT3 engines).
the only designs that are any good are v8s, and v12s. auto manufacturers built them forever.
.
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10-13-2010, 01:39 PM
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oh yeah ?? where ya been all morning ? have a look over on the six eight forum. 
https://rennlist.com/forums/968-foru...ite-oil-2.html
i shoulda stuck a "V" in front of "six." my bad.
he's also got a nice Turbo "68" project going....
/
https://rennlist.com/forums/968-foru...ite-oil-2.html
i shoulda stuck a "V" in front of "six." my bad.
he's also got a nice Turbo "68" project going....
/
10-13-2010, 01:43 PM
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I can so agree with this. I still long for the day when there is an espada in my garage. Or an old Urraco (which is a V8 but i'm a sucker for the classics). I love italian vehicles.
10-13-2010, 02:14 PM
#12
Instructor
I agree wholeheartedly.
I'm not trying to offed anyone out there who has done the V8 conversion. On a technical level it is very impressive to put a V8 into a 944. I would love to have more power as well.
But, to me anyway, it seems like a sacrilege to dump a chunk of Detroit steel into a German automobile.
Just my opinion. To each his own...
I'm not trying to offed anyone out there who has done the V8 conversion. On a technical level it is very impressive to put a V8 into a 944. I would love to have more power as well.
But, to me anyway, it seems like a sacrilege to dump a chunk of Detroit steel into a German automobile.
Just my opinion. To each his own...
10-13-2010, 02:33 PM
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This morning I thought I heard the raucus drumbeat of a Spec Racer Ford driving by (see my Avatar). It was the next best thing. An old Mercury Tracer with no muffler. Same engine (1.9L four cylinder).
10-13-2010, 02:51 PM
#15
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