Monoballs (Again)
05-29-2012, 07:59 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Monoballs (Again)
Anybody running them on the street? Seems the caster blocks made with monoballs are only about $50 more than the factory rubber thingies - are they worth it for the street?
05-29-2012, 11:32 PM
#4
Burning Brakes
I see you have a '86 , backdate to early steel control arms and prothane 22-201 poly bushings.
They are great for the street and best of all cheap. All parts are same as vw rabbit, you can get new control arms for 60$ ,above mentioned poly bushings for 35$ and ball joints for 35$ ,you also need some used brackets for the rear bushings and sway bar mounts. If you want to go the extra mile you can get poly bushings for the sway bar mounts also.
I think this is the best setup for the street even with 17" wheels (poly bushings are good enough for that) , no more expensive ball joints or mounts , you can change everything for about 150$ for both sides. This is what i did and it works great ,i also have stiffer springs/shocks and 25.5mm sway bar ,it's still comfortable and handles great.
They are great for the street and best of all cheap. All parts are same as vw rabbit, you can get new control arms for 60$ ,above mentioned poly bushings for 35$ and ball joints for 35$ ,you also need some used brackets for the rear bushings and sway bar mounts. If you want to go the extra mile you can get poly bushings for the sway bar mounts also.
I think this is the best setup for the street even with 17" wheels (poly bushings are good enough for that) , no more expensive ball joints or mounts , you can change everything for about 150$ for both sides. This is what i did and it works great ,i also have stiffer springs/shocks and 25.5mm sway bar ,it's still comfortable and handles great.
05-30-2012, 02:42 AM
#7
Pro
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Just look at those gorgeous things. (Acura NSX)
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05-30-2012, 06:01 AM
#8
Three Wheelin'
I see you have a '86 , backdate to early steel control arms and prothane 22-201 poly bushings.
They are great for the street and best of all cheap. All parts are same as vw rabbit, you can get new control arms for 60$ ,above mentioned poly bushings for 35$ and ball joints for 35$ ,you also need some used brackets for the rear bushings and sway bar mounts. If you want to go the extra mile you can get poly bushings for the sway bar mounts also.
I think this is the best setup for the street even with 17" wheels (poly bushings are good enough for that) , no more expensive ball joints or mounts , you can change everything for about 150$ for both sides. This is what i did and it works great ,i also have stiffer springs/shocks and 25.5mm sway bar ,it's still comfortable and handles great.
They are great for the street and best of all cheap. All parts are same as vw rabbit, you can get new control arms for 60$ ,above mentioned poly bushings for 35$ and ball joints for 35$ ,you also need some used brackets for the rear bushings and sway bar mounts. If you want to go the extra mile you can get poly bushings for the sway bar mounts also.
I think this is the best setup for the street even with 17" wheels (poly bushings are good enough for that) , no more expensive ball joints or mounts , you can change everything for about 150$ for both sides. This is what i did and it works great ,i also have stiffer springs/shocks and 25.5mm sway bar ,it's still comfortable and handles great.
05-30-2012, 09:57 AM
#9
Three Wheelin'
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05-30-2012, 10:18 AM
#10
Racer
Thread Starter
I just went on Paragon or Pelican, 944online and quoted those prices. Elephant Racing is $295 for a pair of monoballs. There is an early and late original version, the late is supposed to be better with less rubber.
I have installed new ball-joints, bought front monoballs and the rear castor blocks are toast. Now I should toss the whole thing and put in metal arms? Converting to metal now would cost more than the monoballs even if you ignore the cost of the existing repairs.
I still haven't heard from anyone who has used monoballs for the street or who has just replaced the rubber Porsche things with late model blocks.
Also, poly bushings do not 'give' as you turn the wheels and with the normal changes that occur in the geometry you put all the stress on the cheesy mild-steel arm which could crack/fail. They also squeak and transmit road noise, which is already loud enough. Except that its cheaper, I can't think of any advantage of steel with poly bushings. Plus I have 17" rims which are over-kill but look OK. (Fuchs, one day.)
I should have just spent the money on Linday arms or Charlie arms or that ilk and then I could tantalize you all with suspension ****.
I have installed new ball-joints, bought front monoballs and the rear castor blocks are toast. Now I should toss the whole thing and put in metal arms? Converting to metal now would cost more than the monoballs even if you ignore the cost of the existing repairs.
I still haven't heard from anyone who has used monoballs for the street or who has just replaced the rubber Porsche things with late model blocks.
Also, poly bushings do not 'give' as you turn the wheels and with the normal changes that occur in the geometry you put all the stress on the cheesy mild-steel arm which could crack/fail. They also squeak and transmit road noise, which is already loud enough. Except that its cheaper, I can't think of any advantage of steel with poly bushings. Plus I have 17" rims which are over-kill but look OK. (Fuchs, one day.)
I should have just spent the money on Linday arms or Charlie arms or that ilk and then I could tantalize you all with suspension ****.
05-30-2012, 10:34 AM
#11
Burning Brakes
You need
1 Left sway bar mount p.n. 944-343-735-00 (This one is NLA ,there are still some old stock out there and many more used )
1 Right sway bar mount p.n. 944-343-736-00
2 Sway bar outer bushes OEM 477 411 313C or poly SUPERPRO-SPF2922-18K ( these suit sway bars up to 26.8mm but you could enlarge them for 30mm)
2 Control arm rear support brackets p.n. 477 407 169 ( i suggest you get these used as they are very expensive new )
2 Control arms p.n. 171-407-153-D-M69
2 Ball joints p.n. 171-407-365G-M69
1 Prothane 22-201 kit
Pelican seems to have the best prices on most parts
http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/...343-735-00-OEM
Superpro sway bar bushes can be had here (bottom of page)
http://www.design911.co.uk/fu/pt385_...ll-Bar-Bushes/
Prothane bushes
Last edited by catamax944; 05-30-2012 at 10:57 AM.
05-30-2012, 10:53 AM
#12
Burning Brakes
I just went on Paragon or Pelican, 944online and quoted those prices. Elephant Racing is $295 for a pair of monoballs. There is an early and late original version, the late is supposed to be better with less rubber.
I have installed new ball-joints, bought front monoballs and the rear castor blocks are toast. Now I should toss the whole thing and put in metal arms? Converting to metal now would cost more than the monoballs even if you ignore the cost of the existing repairs.
I still haven't heard from anyone who has used monoballs for the street or who has just replaced the rubber Porsche things with late model blocks.
Also, poly bushings do not 'give' as you turn the wheels and with the normal changes that occur in the geometry you put all the stress on the cheesy mild-steel arm which could crack/fail. They also squeak and transmit road noise, which is already loud enough. Except that its cheaper, I can't think of any advantage of steel with poly bushings. Plus I have 17" rims which are over-kill but look OK. (Fuchs, one day.)
I should have just spent the money on Linday arms or Charlie arms or that ilk and then I could tantalize you all with suspension ****.
I have installed new ball-joints, bought front monoballs and the rear castor blocks are toast. Now I should toss the whole thing and put in metal arms? Converting to metal now would cost more than the monoballs even if you ignore the cost of the existing repairs.
I still haven't heard from anyone who has used monoballs for the street or who has just replaced the rubber Porsche things with late model blocks.
Also, poly bushings do not 'give' as you turn the wheels and with the normal changes that occur in the geometry you put all the stress on the cheesy mild-steel arm which could crack/fail. They also squeak and transmit road noise, which is already loud enough. Except that its cheaper, I can't think of any advantage of steel with poly bushings. Plus I have 17" rims which are over-kill but look OK. (Fuchs, one day.)
I should have just spent the money on Linday arms or Charlie arms or that ilk and then I could tantalize you all with suspension ****.
I had the steel arms for a year now ,about 10k miles and i can tell you that they don't squeak or transmit road noise and they definitely didn't crack or fail in any way nor i have ever heard of such problems , they are more than suitable for any kind of street use.
I do agree however that if you intend to use them for the track they either need to be reinforced or better yet use the alloy ones .
The cost of the conversion is 150-170$ ,you decide if that is resonable or not.
05-30-2012, 11:00 AM
#14
Nordschleife Master
I have monoballs on my street 951, 968 rubber blocks on my NA..
monoballs definitely improve the feedback, but are overkill on a street car... 968 blocks are better than OE 944 pieces, but still retain compliance!
My NA will retain all the rubber it has now, the 951 will lose what few bits of rubber are remaining in the suspension... this is just the way things will happen!
monoballs definitely improve the feedback, but are overkill on a street car... 968 blocks are better than OE 944 pieces, but still retain compliance!
My NA will retain all the rubber it has now, the 951 will lose what few bits of rubber are remaining in the suspension... this is just the way things will happen!
05-30-2012, 03:47 PM
#15
Racer
Thread Starter
"The "problem" with any aftermarket material bushing in the front of the early steel-armed 944's is the shape of the area to work with verses the amount of load it has to deal with. The new RED Weltmeister bushing are Poly-impregnated rubber (the same type as used in most all other "performance" bushing kits from Energy Suspension, etc.) They are still relatively pliable, and are not the best material for that nature of use. They are not recommended for track both as the aforementioned CYA, but they also have proven to break down similar to the original rubber bushings when used in extreme (racing) conditions. Braking produces the greatest load on that area as the goal is to ultimately prevent toe-out. Simple up-and-down, rotational motion would likely not cause excessive wear. Another problem, though it could be corrected, is that the current RED Weltmeister bushing does not include a steel sleeve spacer to positively lock the crossmember at a fixed distance. As you torque down on the crossmember, the relatively soft bushing is squeezed. This is not ideal.
- The late (85.5+) cast aluminum arms have a more finite fitment in this area, and allow the bushing to be a bit more precise that will ultimately last longer. Regardless, the same assertion applies that they are not recommended for "racing" use."
- The late (85.5+) cast aluminum arms have a more finite fitment in this area, and allow the bushing to be a bit more precise that will ultimately last longer. Regardless, the same assertion applies that they are not recommended for "racing" use."