auryn0151

So, I have spent the last few weeks tracking down some 944s and checking them out. I found a 1987 944S that I saw and drove. (http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/m...124422367.html for those interested).

I had the PPI done today by a mechanic who is familiar with the cars. He said that 2 gaskets (one being the valve cover gasket iirc), rear shocks, power steering hose and resovoir needed replacement. Otherwise there were minor things like wire covers beginning to disintegrate that he suggested be replaced in the not to distant future. The owner has agreed to have these major items fixed at his cost if we agree on a price for the car before the work is performed.

As the title says, I'm just concerned about the reliability of a car with 141k miles on it. I know that good maintenance history is a better indicator than mileage, but I just can't shake the worry that the first time I drive the car from DC to NY I'm going to be stuck on the side of the road.

So what do you all think? Is the 944, with all major parts in good working order a more reliable car than I'm giving it credit for, or are my concerns founded?

odurandina

you're definitely on the right track.

even so, wait.... there's no reason to be in a hurry to get a car. DON'T BUY ANYTHING. you can gain a lot of insight by reading.... learn all you can about the cars. there are some very good newbie threads on this forum from just the past couple of months that offer great advice.... when you do buy your car, start with the timing system, cooling system, oil air and fuel filters.... if you smell gas, investigate and look very closely at the fuel hoses in the engine compartment... make sure that anything that hasn't been done recently gets done immediately. watch for any signs of a bad clutch or failing head gasket... these cars don't like to sit. beware of any car where the owners claim they did a bunch of crap only to have them sitting a couple of years. forget about all the other stuff like bigger tires, and making the car go faster until you address the basics.


https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...e-restore.html

https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...our-car-9.html


there's a lot of success stories and happy owners.

what i like to call the 7 stages of turbo ownership here.

https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...ml#post9697078





original ad;

1987 porsche 944S, white on black, 5 speed, 141k miles, all service records, original tools and books, just serviced (timing belt, water pump, chain+guids and etc, call for details)ac, sun roof, power windows, seat, mirrors, key less entery, alpine stereo, and much more,(please contact me so i can tell you all about it). Inside looks new and the out side looks amazing, EVERY THING WORKS. This car is a part of my retro car collection. Contact me with any questions 301-910-1141 if you are looking @ cars, look in your price range. Thanx. Let me know if you want to see more pictures.



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F18Rep

Nice car. Unless you really know the NA, I would suggest test drive to include a drive it in its weakest environment - which is stop and go highway traffic. The zero to 60 to zero cycles are a real stain for the NA. On the other hand, its best is a lonely, curvy country road.

Side note: small points lost for older non-airbag steering wheel, non-clear stone guards, front seats don't match rear seats. It looks clean, very nice color. With the miles, I'm thinking 5k-ish. $6700 is turbo land...Bruce

Dougs951

I just broke 187k on my S2. So mileage isnt always a big deal.

pcarfan944

If the car has been properly serviced along the way as indicated, 141k is nothing. Relatively speaking, that's a pretty small to-do list found during the PPI.

There are many 944's to get cold feet over, this doesn't sound like one of them.

ernie9468

Very decent looking car for the asking price & agree it's a pretty the short list found by the mechanic.But did he really check the most important thing to be check on an S 16V which is the (pads-chain & tensioner) don't seem so.If those was not check & done recently this is will be the first thing to look at before you put your money down on a 944S,there is no set mileage for replacing the pads but most 16V owners agree that they should be done at approx 80,000k miles.Just in case you don't know what I'm talking about the pads (which are plastic) as they get old will turn brittle & break sometime causing very extensive head damage.Both the upper & lower one should be done when changing them.Pic is of a 16V head with the valve cover remove, the pads are what the chain is riding on.If those have been done + timing belts/balance shafts belts & water pump I would'nt worry to much about a 140k miles 944S.

J Berk

Around 206,000 miles and counting on my s2!

xsboost90

the main thing is that its a 25 yo car and things break. The more you replace up front the more reliable it should be - new belts, hoses etc, change fluids and check things out very well. My buddys car has 400k on it and runs strong but is just starting to use some oil. Milage has less to do with the shape of the car than age and maintenance.

odurandina

holy crap. $6,700 ? i didn't see that. the car looks great but, come on guys..... i know you all want to see your cars selling for high dollars, but, that's very close to 968 money *(in some cases). a beautiful 968 with a fresh re-spray and a lowered suspension was sold in a quick sale last year for $6,800 *(Sarasota, FL). if the op is willing to part with that much money for slow, 25~26 year old "S," he might consider holding out for a 968 on Ebay. for $1,500 more, he can get a car that will blow his mind.

odurandina

70 more hp, '90s accents (it's also a '90s car) and 6-speed transmission.

@ 100 k miles, this engine is a few turns past broken in.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsc...item1e70338860

auryn0151

Thanks for the responses everyone. I am trying to figure out what price I would offer him for the car that he might accept, especially that he's about to put 1k into the car for me to get proper things fixed. I am still hesitant, and may not make an offer at all. I'm not in a rush to get a car, though I am growing a little tired of the find a car/drive a car/inspect the car/haggle the car process.

Any idea what you would offer as a reasonable price?

J Berk

while I am not partial to the S, that seems like a very nice example.

The S requires high revs to stay in the power-band.....it was the pre-cursor to the S2...which has the turbo body-style, bigger brakes, etc.

Interior seems well cared for, exterior seems unblemished.

Keep in mind that the S is relatively rare and from what I've read, parts are a bit harder to find (head for example).

If the car is fully up to snuff on maintenance and the PPI was good...and the clutch is fairly fresh....I'd go between $4000 and $5000 for it....but not $6700.

For around $7k you can pickup a very nice S2 which is a 3.0 liter motor with more hp/torque and is a bullet-proof motor.

car_slave

If you have doubts then you should walk. Otherwise the car looks nice. Offer him $5K as-is and be prepared to walk.

Jfrahm

I am not a big fan of PPIs on older cars, they seem to find some little and expensive stuff and overlook big expensive stuff and generally put off both the buyer and the seller. The shop assumes they might get the work to fix the problems so it can be a big payday for them.

I also feel that a buyer who is getting a PP for a 25 year old car better be an enthusiast with deep pockets who intends to pay whatever he or she needs to in order to have the ownership experience of an older sports car and not a person on a budget looking for a good sports car value. I could see doing a PPI on an S2000 or a 996 or something like that but on an old 944? If you go that route you will be spending $15K on a car that'll be worth $5K when you are done, so I hope you plan to have lots of fun on the way.

I dunno why the valve cover gasket would need replacing if the cam service has been recently done, and also if the PS hose is bad the sway bar and control arm bushings on that side are probably also shot. That motor mount might also get some attention. Replacing the PS reservoir is a bit odd, some people replace it as it has a filter in it but that's not really necessary IMO. How are the fuel lines? All of them?

Generally I suggest taking time to make a comprehensive list of the work needed so it can be done efficiently so I would not suggest doing any of the work suggested in the PPI as it probably overlaps other work that should be done as well. If you do not wrench then budget $10K to get the car sorted out and hope you only spend $5K right away.

I do my own work and can very easily spend $2500 in the first couple months on a decently sorted out car that I bought and drove 800 miles home without incident.

-Joel.

odurandina

great post Joel,


frankly, i think if you buy a 944 S (for that kind of $$$$), you're shortchanging yourself. the numbers don't work anymore when you look at the big picture. the costs of maintaning them verses their out-the-door value is no-longer good. changing a clutch is a full nightmare..... and in terms of what you actually get in the wow factor, performance and looks, a 968 or even a (2.7 litre) *Boxster for just a couple/few thousand dollars more is well worth the squeeze. these two cars deliver considerably more.

if you save up a little more money, a clean 968 can be stolen easily off ebay. and this is significant because 968 prices have risen at least 30 % in the past couple of years !! but on ebay you can still get a bargain as some of these sellers have moved on from the Porsche 4 platform, and are either longer emotionally tied up with the brand and/or too busy to haggle.... a little more cash and you can win a 2nd Generation *Boxster (the early 2.5 Boxsters should be avoided).....


in the case of the car you've cited, the guy has clearly put in a lot of time, effort and money.

by contrast, the 968 i posted from Ebay appears to need a switch, possibly the belts and tune up, and new seat leather..... hardly issues that can't be easily solved.

despite this, i wouldn't offer any more than about 3,500~3,600 for this very nice "S." if i wasn't blessed with money, i still wouldn't buy it. and because he's started at such high a figure, i'd never want to deal with this seller.... i'd be comparing that S @ 1/4 of the original sticker to a 968 @ 1/6th of the original sticker.... and it would be a never-ending problem for me. go out and drive this car.... then drive a 968 with 80 more horsepower..... you'll quickly discover you need that extra power ! (even with the added weight of the 968). with the newer car, you also stand a lot better chance it never sat.... and always been serviced at close intervals to the manufacture's suggestions, always had properly functioniong H20 pumps, fresh oil, etc.... from experience, this is something we know to be true.

it's getting harder and harder to find good rubber for the 944s these days for those dated wheels...

with a 968, you're getting the 959 17" modern cup wheels/tires.



as a previous poster mentions, with that S car, you need to be near peak rpm all the time just to feel anything. that point isn't even debatable.... but, with the correct-sized tires and simple exhaust upgrade you can reach the limiter pushing 250 hp, blow people's doors on the highway (in a 968) and reach 160~162 mph in top gear.



the 968 also has a significantly-better, quality engine.

one more thing;

people spend tens of thousands of dollars more on cars that can go 20~25 mph faster... (and came with decent headliners). you'll never have to beat the crap out of a 968 to go really fast.



*(ims issues with the Boxsters have been solved somewhat with the LN Engineering retrofit kits)....



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