TonyG

Yes it was me.

This is what happens when your product that is a great idea but very poorly executed and simply cannot be used for the intended use.

In this case the splitter has all sorts of problems as Joe sells it.

It's got the wrong angle, it's not reinforced so there's no way to support it, it's so thin that if you have any off-track excursions it will break for sure, etc...

I tried to tell him what needed to be done and he told me that I was an F'ing idot and that I would rip the whole front end off the car.

Sorry... but in real race cars... the splitters are strong enough to stand on.

So with him making it clear that I didn't know what I was talking and proceeding to insult me, I made a mold of his design, then made modifications, then made a mold of my modified design. This is what I use.

The corrections I made work and make the product function properly and effectively. And despite lots of off-track excursions... nothing has ripped off the car and the splitter survives unscathed.

If Joe didn't have his head up his *** and fixed his design based on my feed back in the first place I would have never wasted my time is getting involved in fixing and remaking the splitter. I have far better things to do with my time. I would have been a lot less expensive for me if he simply fixed the design and sold me the revised product.

And and BTW... I also have a version of the splitter (shown below) which uses 1.5" replaceable splitter extension.... for us track junkies :-)

TonyG

Volhv_944

Here's some of the progress I've made on the splitter attatchment. It's also got a few bolts holding it to the lower rad support.
As far as a sub 100MPH daily driver goes, this proved to be enough. At the end of the day, I'm sure a lot of these splitters are treated as peices of "flair".
Am also considering running a bead of sealant where the splitter meets the valance, but having to scrape it off and reapply it with every removal would get annoying.








As you can see, the NA is lacking these attach point.

Reimu

This is part of the reason I canceled my splitter order, I was after something with more function over form and being a secure fit.

Shouldn't an ideal splitter be perfectly flat on the bottom?

Max Energy

I have used Tony's splitters on numerous 944/951 race cars with NO ISSUES
Max

HICKS

Glad I didn't order one either, you think Joe would be here defending his product and answering questions......

twk63

Tony,

PM sent

Volhv_944

I gotta say, Joe's design, especially the one for the NA, fits the curves of the car and contour of the valance very well. It's a really nicely designed piece, especially where it curves up on the trailing edge in front of the wheel. An awesome touch. I don't regret getting it. While Joe did include mounting provisions, more are required for stability at speed. The design of the NA valance makes it a bit challenging.

SAL661

Hey TonG where can I purchase one of your splitters?

Rich Sandor

I respect Tony a lot, having followed his posts closely over the last decade and I've even got some close friends that have met him and said great things, but I also know Joe personally and respect him a lot too.

I have Joe's race splitter on my 951, and have had ZERO problems with it flexing or shuddering on track. My car has half the power of Tony's car but it still sees 120-140mph++ on track. I simply attach it via the OEM screws to my front bumper and wheel wells, and if I try to push down on it, it just pulls the bumper cover down with it. It does NOT flex. I agree that it requires the external supports, but that is a failure of the bumper cover, not the splitter.

It CERTAINLY could use reinforcement to prevent shattering if it grounds out at an odd angle, but I would have to go off track for that to happen and my track record is pretty good over the last 10 years of NOT doing that. I've already mentioned to Joe that I would like to have a completely flat bottomed splitter for aero purposes (more than for rigidity) and his only concern with that is production complexity. It would be a pain in the *** to make it like that and would make the endeavor not financially worth his while. This is totally understandable from my point of view.

Tony as much as you complain that it was a pain in the *** for you to modify it, it would have been for Joe as well. His labour on each splitter would double and the cost would be noncompetitive.

I know Joe put a lot of time into shaping the original. (and I gave a lot of input about the shape myself) If you want to sell a beefier version of his splitter, at least start from scratch with the mold so you can appreciate the initial work he's already put into the design.

TonyG

Put a GoPro on the bumper and point it at the splitter and watch what happens over 125-130mph.

If the bumper and the splitter move together, as you mentioned (and I know for a fact they do) then splitter angle changes.

On race cars, even a couple of degrees of angle change on a wing or splitter has a dramatic affect on down force and top speed.

When wings or splitters flex, the angle changes, and when the angle changes, the downforce and drag changes, which changes the way the car handles. All of which is not what you want happening.

Which... is why wings and splitters cannot have any flex, nor can the surface they are connected to.

As far as strength goes... if you can push on it and it flexes (no matter if it's the wing/splitter itself or the surface it's mounted to) ... it's moving way too much.

You should be able to stand on a splitter with your full body weight with zero flex.

Go stand on yours and tell me if it moves.

I can stand on (jump on...) mine and it doesn't.

You're taking my complaints out of context.

My point was that I'm not in the business of making parts. I would have much rather Joe made the necessary changes, and sell me (and everyone else) the parts even at an increased cost.

The point being that it's not worth it, financially speaking, to get involved in remaking a splitter.

And believe me... if there was another splitter out there that worked properly, I would have bought that over spending the time to remake Joe's splitter.

With respect to Joe's design...

It's not about appreciating Joe's initial work or his design. His design is nice. And I like his work. But that's not the issue.

The issue is that his design is clearly not ready for use on a race car for the various reasons I've previously mentioned.

And Joe clearly doesn't want to make the corrections to his part design.

The reasons why are irrelevant.

Then the choice becomes... don't use his part, or modify his design.

I modified his design.

TonyG

Joe Toth

Tony, I am sick and tired of your B.S. when you ordered that piece from me you wanted it as light as possible. I told you how much glass I layed up for the parts and you asked if I could do less to save weight. Stop the crap, not once did you call, email, pm me about any issues. The only thing I saw was you knocking my piece and having a copy of my design for sale. Yes I called you everything but Sir for one reason only .... NO CALLS ABOUT ISSUES JUST A COPY OF MY HARD WORK.

TonyG

Sorry... but you're full of crap and have a poor memory.

The shape is good except that the angle is not correct. The design is ****-poor flimsy and is no where near suited for a race car.

Reinforcement issues aside... the thing flexes all over place, which changes the AOA, which changes the down force, which changes the handling of the car. (no wonder the thing flutters all over the place...)

All of which are exactly what you DO NOT want on a race car.


When I emailed you to tell you I wanted it reinforced, you told me I was a "F-ing idiot and that reinforcing it would cause the whole front end of the car to be ripped off if the car went off track".

That would be incorrect.

The reinforcement stabilizes the splitter which eliminates flex, allows reinforcements to be properly mounted, and sustains ZERO damage when the car gets off the track.

And honestly... if you weren't just a jerk with a crappy attitude, and would have provided what your customers wanted, we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place.

Why don't you post a pic of the under side of your splitter for everyone to see.

Fix your design and I won't sell any more.

It's up to you.

TonyG

Butters944

FREE MARKET BAYBY!!!

How much for one of yours?

Keith

TonyG

Sorry...

Let Joe Toth fix his flimsy splitter design and buy one from him.

I was only making them for myself and a few other people that wanted a race worthy piece.

TonyG

Volhv_944

Tony has only copied and modified the Turbo version of Joe's splitter. The one of the NA is different.... and as I mentioned earlier, a bit harder to mount since the NA cars were not designed with the provisions for a batwing.