TurnerJ

Yes. And yeah for that price it would have to be a gem.

Definitely take your time picking the best 944 because there are tons to choose from and many of the good ones get priced with all the other so-so ones (low).

TurnerJ

Oh and definitely check out the vehicle classifieds here on the forum. Lots of really nice cars on here again priced with all the other so-so cars.

bumflick

All turbos are $10k to $12k cars. What you save in purchase cost will cost you in maintenance that the previous owner did not do.

Im a year and half into ownership of my 944 and I love it. Not because it is appreciating in value, but because it is the car that I wanted since high school. (Im old enough to have seen risky business when it first came out) No ubout commander jokes, please.

If you want something with a manual trasmission for some fun that you can resell in a year might I suggest a mustang, or a jeep wrangler? Not trying to be mean, but if resale is one of your top concerns, there is a pretty wide market for those. The 944, due to a well deserved reputation for high maintenance costs, may not command as many buyers.

On the other hand, if you take the plunge, there a ton of very knowledgeable guys on this forum and other online resources that can guide you through almost any repair if you are willing to get your hands dirty.

I cant imagine selling mine, so resale is not a factor. If I blow up the engine, well there is always the V8 option...

jfd986

So I'm glad someone finally raised this opinion, I expected it up front. Ever since I found this type of car, I questioned buying it because I'd never want to resell it, but initially it seemed like a very real possibility to me. I looked into the mustang and other cars, but they didn't quite have the same feel to them, not sure why.


I will NOT be selling this car in a year. See below:


IMPORT RULES FOR US-bought PORSCHES

- I called the registrar of imported vehicles, and since the car is greater than 15 years of age, I'm exempt from having to register it wit them. They told me to call Canada Customs regarding the tax situation for import (1800 461 9999 then 1-1-0 if anyone is really that curious)

- I called Canada customs, and they said I'm exempt from duties, exempt from the "Green Levy" whatever that is because it's >25 years old, and I'd have to pay

$100 for air conditioning tax and
13% sales tax (13% of its verifiable purchase price in the US, from sales receipt)

5% of that is general sales tax because the vehicle was manufactured in Canada, and while the province of Ontario charges 13% in harmonized tax for everything, that's technically a GST+PST combo, so they only make me pay what's left because otherwise I'd be paying tax twice.


13% tax will seem high to Americans, but in Canada that's pretty much the standard. The money goes into healthcare etc. What good it does, I really can't comment on that, but this is money I'd pay for a car ANYWAY in Canada, and I believe the American used Porsche market is more favourable than the Canadian one.


Regarding the Turbo I was looking at that's priced below the 10-12 k, I do have maintenance records from the owner (verbal, will confirm with paperwork when I see the car tomorrow) and he told me the timing belt will need changed next year, otherwise the water pump, rollers, master cylinder, clutch, and a few other things I can't remember off the top of my head, were all replaced last year, after which the car saw ~600 miles of use, not to mention this supposed engine rebuild. I don't know if anyone knows the name Trevor Hill, but that's supposedly the guy who worked on this car for the vendor. I don't really recognize the name.

So now we're in it for the long haul, guys. Now if I buy this car, I will very likely be keeping it, maintaining it, and running it until kingdom come. The car I REALLY have to sell, is the '08 Camry by July 2016. That car is boring, and the import taxes that would be due on that car are, in a nutshell, ridiculous.

mhr

I imported my car into Canada and I don't believe you are correct that you are exempt from duties. I may be wrong but I think they will charge you 6.5%. Although my car was not 25 yrs old when imported so possibly that is the difference.

You are exempt from everything else. In Quebec I had to get my car inspected before plating not sure where you are from so that may be different in your province.

Good luck

Mark

odurandina

the recent Gates belts go and go and go.

you can now swap out everything in a single 50 k mile interval with no worries.

they were advertising long life for the 944 belts.

then I put 59k on a Gates set for my 968, and they still looked good.

jfd986

What is "everything" that I would swap out at 50k miles, and how much, approximately, would it cost ? Parts and labour, let's assume (correctly) that I don't know how to work on my car

odurandina

timing/balance shaft belts, idler rollers, tensioner, H20 pump and front seals.

I'd avoid the re-built pumps and go new from Zims, German Auto Parts or Autohaus AZ.

jfd986

I just test drove the silver 1986 944 Turbo that I found, and I was overall more impressed by that car than I was for the others, but I had some concerns.

The owner is a graphics designer who works at a "race shop" , whatever that is, sorry guys I'm completely new to this culture. The mechanic at the shop is supposedly well-known for porsches in the area, and designed the car to be street legal and to be able to do autocross. The car, within the last 5000 miles or less, has had the following:

New brakes
New rollers
New tensioner/idler (same thing, different thing? I just saw it on a checklist a while ago)
New master cylinder
New clutch
New water pump
New timing belt
New suspension


He estimated standard maintenance costs (water pump + rollers + tensioners/idlers + something else ) at about 900 dollars every 50000 miles. I don't think he included the timing belt in there, simple because he changed his every 30000 miles. Would you guys call that figure accurate ?

When the car was put together less than 5 years ago for the current owner, the engine was rebuilt, or something like that. All the documentation was left at the shop, so the owner was unable to produce it, but will be scanning and emailing it all over tomorrow.

The test drive went well, the boost was surprising. I could feel some vibration in the steering, but it wasn't abhorrent, I mentioned it and the owner said it was "feedback" that older more sporty cars have since there's not a lot of steering assist involved, nothing's cushioned for you in the car. The steering is power steering, and the owner said auto transmission fluid works, but I thought you needed porsche approved steering fluid. Can anyone comment on this?

The Good

- Drives well, drives really well
- If I want to give autocross a try one day, it boosts
- Some key parts , as far as I can tell, have been recently replaced
- If I wanted to change from something called "Rivals", to all season tires (which I figured would be better for winter, yes/no ? I'm a seasoned winter driver, if that makes a difference), he works at a race shop so the labor would be free (which really isn't amazing, but hell I figured I'd put it on the list), and he'd be able to find the tires, and I'd keep the Rivals
- The interior of the car looks even better than in the pictures, and the car hasn't even been detailed recently. Aside from that patch on the seats, the seats look very good.
- He's willing to put in a new motor for the sunroof (not that I've ever used the stupid thing on my car to begin with)

The Bad

- The electric side view mirrors aren't moving, have to adjust by hand
- The cruise control isn't working, as far as we could tell by trying
- There's a patch ~ 3 x 4 or 2 x 4 inches missing from the left side of the driver's seat, at about hip level. If I wanted it fixed, he said I should be able to get it done at an upholsterer (sp?)
- He had the car plugged into the wall. He said it wasn't essential but it was a good thing to do, he tried to explain it to me but I couldn't understand it. Why did he do that, can anyone tell me ?


The Price

- He said 8500 initially, and I offered him 6500 (interestingly enough, there was a rennlist decal on the rear window). He didn't like 6500, thought it was too low, and then he said there's someone from Virginia (who he mentioned prior to us meeting) coming to look at the car this weekend, and had offered him 7500 for the car.

Bottom line - 7600

Q: Do you guys think this is a good buy or should I walk away from this ? I'm not gonna lie , I really do like the car, and as far as I can tell the initial maintenance shouldn't be a nightmare. Again, though, if you guys think it's not worth it or something's clearly wrong, just say so and explain why and I'll walk away from it.

He said he'd send me the papers and would get back to me after asking his mechanic how much the cruise control and mirrors would cost to fix, tomorrow afternoon. He expects an answer from me by then.

kcoyle

Anything 30 years old will be dicey as a DD no matter how you slice it.

I'd put $8000 as my max in my local craigslist and see what comes up that fits my criteria. (small, fun to drive, etc) You may find something newer.
Can't comment on the 951, I only own a lowly 924

Otto Mechanic

Yeah! Then you can put $7700 in it and waste your own money! And your time!

Makes perfect sense! Go with what Syd says. You can't go wrong!

There's another axiom in this business; it's always cheaper to buy someone else's build than it is to do it yourself. Always. Unless you actually enjoy working on cars, buy someone else's. This guy isn't charging you for labor. The only downside is you will not be qualified to repair the car yourself if you buy it from him, you'll have to learn. If you did the restoring yourself, you'd also be the car's mechanic. You'll either have to learn, or you'll have to depend on a pro for support going forward.

And the oil change argument is tripe. Puting a clutch in a 924 isn't remotely comparable to changing the oil.

$7700 for a well restored 924 is a great deal.

Otto Mechanic

You should ask, but normally yes, the terms are interchangeable.

It's low if you're replacing the water pump. Most people replace the pump every other timing belt (30K * 2 = 60K miles). Unless you do the work yourself it's likely to be more than $900, but you can call a local shop for an estimate, they should be able to quote you over the phone. For parts pricing, look at Pelican Parts, they're a good standard for parts prices.

Yes. The power steering systems on these cars were not designed to use what's normally sold as "power steering fluid" in the US, they were specifically designed to use Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF). The reason so many of these cars have leaking power steering systems is their owners did not know the difference.

Many shops will include mounting and balancing in the price of the tires.

Pictures would help. It's certainly not out of line based on your description. It's a 951 yes? $7600 for a well maintained 951 is actually a pretty darned good deal.

V996

$7700 for any 924S other than a very rare one or one that is museum condition is not a good deal. Period.

TC, I paid $4000 for mine (which btw odurandina told me was a bad deal at the time) and that's because the Canadian market was higher than the USA, and the car only had 50000 miles on it and a very good porsche mechanic told me it was in excellent mechanical condition. I did the belts and motor mounts and it has run fantastically as a dd for a year and a half with minor electrical issues, even starting and running in constant -25 degree weather.

$7700 is out to lunch. I paid $7000 for my 968!! Which looks 10x nicer and modern than any 924 and has 240hp.

V996

Now another few things... You don't sound very knowledgeable or mechanically inclined. Excuse me if that's wrong but you're asking some very amateur questions. That's fine, I'm an amateur with a wrench too lol. But my point is, you're looking at TURBOS as a daily driver for long trips... And you don't have much knowledge of these cars at all. Let me tell you, any experienced owner on this forum will agree that the turbo is an absolute nightmare for maintenance and breakdowns and diagnosing problems. And that's for people who don't dd them and know what they're doing with a wrench. I think it is an incredibly bad idea to buy a turbo in your circumstance. I personally settled for the NA 924S and 968 for this reason. They also have a bad reputation but imo if you stay on top of preventative maintenance they will keep running. As long as you find the right car. Get a ppi at a porsche mechanic if you don't know how to perform a good inspection yourself. It is worth it even if you are dead set on buying the car because you can use his findings to negotiate, plus you will know what to fix as soon as you own the car.

If I were you I'd go for a 968. The time is now. They are very rare cars (only 4000 made for North America) and they are without a doubt the best looking and best performing cars of this line, and they still sell for modest prices. I get compliments all the time on how nice it looks. The 924 and 944 look very dated in comparison. I still love them and my 924 is such a fun little beast to tool around in, but I'm just telling the truth in general... Most 924s will simply not stack up to a 968. And since 968s are so rare they are generally more cared for by their owners than the typical 944 which has seen some time with a neglectful teenager. There is a very niche culture surrounding them, go check out the 968 specific forum on rennlist. Very good group of people. And you should be able to find a decent one if your budget is up to 10k. You will just have to look harder.

Ps take what odurandina says with a grain of salt. I love the guy but he is known here for being quite the negative Nancy and a huge advocate of swapping these cars to v8s (which is actually a good idea if your engine has blown or if you lust for more power, and v8s don't require as much preventative maintenance). I'm not saying he's necessarily wrong, but he tends to exaggerate... Especially after putting so much money in his 968 (which he will then freely admit was a very reliable car even if the few repairs he needed ended up being expensive haha). As his title says, he takes pride in being a slayer of economic optimism

Otto Mechanic

Pardon me for saying so but you're an idiot

If the man has receipts for $7700 worth of parts, and those receipts are legitimate, and he is willing to show them to you, and you can verify their authenticity, $7700 is a good deal. This is very simple.

I paid $4000 for a 924 in 1987. It needed a new suspension, water pump, belts, brake pads and clutch, which I spent $3000 on in parts alone. I also had it up on blocks for six months performing repairs,

I don't care how much you bought your car for; parts cost what they cost and labor costs what you pay for it. It's simple.

Now, if you'd like to say the man paid too much for parts, go ahead. To say anything else is simply stupid.