UPDATE: coolant leak into oil
09-16-2003, 08:48 PM
#16
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Originally posted by SigAlphAdam
I've been using water as coolant all summer. could this have saved my bearings?
I've been using water as coolant all summer. could this have saved my bearings?
up the boiling point (this is very important)
protect against corrosion (just as important)
in summation, it's really bad to just use water
09-17-2003, 08:38 AM
#17
Drifting
Did the car overheat at all? Or did you just notice the milkshake? If the car overheated, you may have blown the headgasket/warped head, as the cause of the "mixing" of oil and coolant. If not, and it's just the oil cooler seals, I'd be inclined to do it myself. Best of luck to you!
09-17-2003, 10:44 AM
#18
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i respectfully disagree with Kevin. it is the head gasket, not the seals. save your time and replace the headgasket.
oil is at a higher pressure than water. water gets into the oil when the motor is off. oil into the water when the motor is on.
oil is at a higher pressure than water. water gets into the oil when the motor is off. oil into the water when the motor is on.
09-17-2003, 01:00 PM
#19
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I agree Tom- Headgasket would be my first choice. Not easy, but not a huge deal for a DIY either. Probably 2 weekends worth of work if you didnt have to drive it, and had never done it before.
IMHO- if you do pull the oil pan- replace the oilpan gasket!!!
IMHO- if you do pull the oil pan- replace the oilpan gasket!!!
09-17-2003, 01:02 PM
#20
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I respectfully disagree with Tom R.
I had water in the oil (no oil in the water) and thought the head gasket was history... but I did a compression test and got good readings. So I started with the cheap oil cooler seals before spending more money on the head gasket and a new seal fixed the problem.
//Magnus
I had water in the oil (no oil in the water) and thought the head gasket was history... but I did a compression test and got good readings. So I started with the cheap oil cooler seals before spending more money on the head gasket and a new seal fixed the problem.
//Magnus
09-17-2003, 01:12 PM
#21
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Originally posted by Magnus
I... but I did a compression test and got good readings.
//Magnus
I... but I did a compression test and got good readings.
//Magnus
I've already signed the title & registration on my brother's 96 Accord...but I miiiiiiiiiight be able to convince the 'rents to let me hold on to the 944 for a bit longer to try and fix it.
09-17-2003, 06:29 PM
#22
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Yes, you can do the test yourself if you have a compression gauge.
Make sure your battery is fully charged.
Unscrew all four spark plugs.
Pull the fuel pump fuse or DME relay.
Disconnect the positive lead from the igntion coil and isolate it with some tape for extra safety.
Screw the gauge in to cylinder 1 and make sure it is reset from any previous tests.
Crank the engine with the starter at least four strokes and watch the gauge at the same time (let a friend turn the key if you can't se the gauge from cockpit). After about four or more strokes the reading should be rather stable and above 10 bar (145 psi?). Write down the reading on a paper.
Repeat the test for cylinder 2, 3 and 4.
If all cylinders show numbers well above 10 bar and the readings are within 1 bar everything is probably in order and you can start looking at the oil cooler seal.
If you get readings like 13.3, 8.9, 8.5 and 13,5 bar you have a likely head gasket problem.
Note, test should be performed with engine at operating temperature but since you have water in the oil I don't recommend starting it until the problem is fixed. I did the test with cold engine and got good readings.
//Magnus
Make sure your battery is fully charged.
Unscrew all four spark plugs.
Pull the fuel pump fuse or DME relay.
Disconnect the positive lead from the igntion coil and isolate it with some tape for extra safety.
Screw the gauge in to cylinder 1 and make sure it is reset from any previous tests.
Crank the engine with the starter at least four strokes and watch the gauge at the same time (let a friend turn the key if you can't se the gauge from cockpit). After about four or more strokes the reading should be rather stable and above 10 bar (145 psi?). Write down the reading on a paper.
Repeat the test for cylinder 2, 3 and 4.
If all cylinders show numbers well above 10 bar and the readings are within 1 bar everything is probably in order and you can start looking at the oil cooler seal.
If you get readings like 13.3, 8.9, 8.5 and 13,5 bar you have a likely head gasket problem.
Note, test should be performed with engine at operating temperature but since you have water in the oil I don't recommend starting it until the problem is fixed. I did the test with cold engine and got good readings.
//Magnus
09-17-2003, 06:59 PM
#24
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Originally posted by Magnus
Note, test should be performed with engine at operating temperature but since you have water in the oil I don't recommend starting it until the problem is fixed. //Magnus
Note, test should be performed with engine at operating temperature but since you have water in the oil I don't recommend starting it until the problem is fixed. //Magnus
Should I refill the oil with fresh oil and refill the coolant fresh, then run it and do the test before they start to mix again?
09-17-2003, 07:19 PM
#25
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If you read a book about doing a comp. test it will say that you should do the test with the engine at operating temp. But I think you should ignore that and do the test without running the engine first to warm it up.
Don't start it, just do the test.
//Magnus
Don't start it, just do the test.
//Magnus
09-18-2003, 04:43 AM
#26
Nordschleife Master
I changed the oil cooler seals with some help; mostly just time consuming. For newer 944s, I had posted this summer the updates you need, including shims, to make sure it doesn't shift when you put it back together; sometimes the oil cooler housing WARPS, and then you have to spend a few bucks to replace it.
You mostly have to make sure you remove the power steering reservoir before you start digging in there. I suggest looking at: www.clarks-garage.com for help. I personally got the extra info from Porsche, and it was out of the Mechanics manual.
Water would be okay by itself, except it needs anti-corrosive protection, ergo Redline's Water wetter. I would look over the bearings, they may be okay. Or you can just purchase them, tons of places listed online here for that! Get the parts, then fix it.
I had oil in my water, still do now; either I did it wrong the first time, or I have a headgasket problem. It isn't dumping, just a skim on top.
Even if it's the head gasket, you can get the kit for under $100 and do it yourself; and while you have the head off, you can take it to a shop and have a valve job done, then put it back together.
Never give up, if you love the car!
I knew my car had problems, but after making sure it was mechanically sound, it's stuff I can fix a little at a time. I do a lot of the work my self, some with Porsche friends, some with the help of my boyfriend or my roommate.
Surely there's someone around you who for Pizzas and food over a weekend, is willing to help you! Ask one of these guys who lives near you. That's what I've done, been happy with the car.
The only reason I have NOT ripped off my headgasket is that I installed a lowe temp switch on the radiator, and the engine never goes past half way on the heat temp, and never goes over 3/4 when in traffic.
Plus I have very good compression, 155, 160, 160 and 165 respectively; not going to mess with that unless I have too! Compression test is easy, just do what these guys said.
But if you love it, have it towed home, and make a plan to fix it with help of friends.
I have eternally regretted losing my first 944, and sold off my Celica to get another 944. They may be a little temperamental at times, but they do serve us well!
- Julie
You mostly have to make sure you remove the power steering reservoir before you start digging in there. I suggest looking at: www.clarks-garage.com for help. I personally got the extra info from Porsche, and it was out of the Mechanics manual.
Water would be okay by itself, except it needs anti-corrosive protection, ergo Redline's Water wetter. I would look over the bearings, they may be okay. Or you can just purchase them, tons of places listed online here for that! Get the parts, then fix it.
I had oil in my water, still do now; either I did it wrong the first time, or I have a headgasket problem. It isn't dumping, just a skim on top.
Even if it's the head gasket, you can get the kit for under $100 and do it yourself; and while you have the head off, you can take it to a shop and have a valve job done, then put it back together.
Never give up, if you love the car!
I knew my car had problems, but after making sure it was mechanically sound, it's stuff I can fix a little at a time. I do a lot of the work my self, some with Porsche friends, some with the help of my boyfriend or my roommate.
Surely there's someone around you who for Pizzas and food over a weekend, is willing to help you! Ask one of these guys who lives near you. That's what I've done, been happy with the car.
The only reason I have NOT ripped off my headgasket is that I installed a lowe temp switch on the radiator, and the engine never goes past half way on the heat temp, and never goes over 3/4 when in traffic.
Plus I have very good compression, 155, 160, 160 and 165 respectively; not going to mess with that unless I have too! Compression test is easy, just do what these guys said.
But if you love it, have it towed home, and make a plan to fix it with help of friends.
I have eternally regretted losing my first 944, and sold off my Celica to get another 944. They may be a little temperamental at times, but they do serve us well!
- Julie
09-18-2003, 04:48 AM
#27
Nordschleife Master
Oh, I think Micah has compiled a list of small good Porsche shops; one of the biggies is that people see it's a Porsche, and think we're ripe for the picking.
The ONLY Porsche dealer I deal with out here in LA is one who's Part Department has always been there for me, and are enthusiasts themselves.
I would never have a dealer work on my car, but a smaller shop who charge realistically.
But I still prefer to do it myself, that way I know it's done right! I've been helping to work on cars since I was 9 years old, and I'm NEVER afraid to ask questions!
That's what you are doing right: asking questions and learning.
- Julie
The ONLY Porsche dealer I deal with out here in LA is one who's Part Department has always been there for me, and are enthusiasts themselves.
I would never have a dealer work on my car, but a smaller shop who charge realistically.
But I still prefer to do it myself, that way I know it's done right! I've been helping to work on cars since I was 9 years old, and I'm NEVER afraid to ask questions!
That's what you are doing right: asking questions and learning.
- Julie
09-18-2003, 06:30 AM
#28
Race Director
I agree with Magnus. IIRC, he has mixing in both the water and the oil. If the oil cooler seals are completely shot, water can get into the oil after engine shut-off.
A simple compression test will bear out the proper answer on this one.
Tifo
A simple compression test will bear out the proper answer on this one.
Tifo
09-18-2003, 08:53 AM
#29
Drifting
The headgaskets on these cars are really not a weak point. The oil cooler gaskets are on the other hand MORE likely to fail.
From a standpoint of whats under more pressure, sure the oil is at a higher pressure and the title of this thread is "coolant...into oil" so from that point it would sound like a headgasket, but if it were my car, I'd start with the simple stuff.
Check the compression. If there is NO oil in the crankcase, DO NOT TURN THE KEY!!!!!! Fill the crankcase with oil, pull the DME relay, pull the wire that goes from the coil to the distributor, pull the spark plugs, screw the compression gauge into the hole where the plug came out. Have a friend, or some other volunteer turn the key...etc.
You can rent (leave a refundable deposit, like $20 or so) a compression test kit from O'Reiley or whatever big auto parts store is near you.
If the results of the compression test are bad = each cylinder is less than 135 psi, or there is a variance of more than 10 - 15 psi between cylinders then you have a bad headgasket.
If the results of the compression test are OK = each cylinder is 135 or more, then its probably just the oil cooler.
Either way, I'd find out more before you decide to get rid of the car.
From a standpoint of whats under more pressure, sure the oil is at a higher pressure and the title of this thread is "coolant...into oil" so from that point it would sound like a headgasket, but if it were my car, I'd start with the simple stuff.
Check the compression. If there is NO oil in the crankcase, DO NOT TURN THE KEY!!!!!! Fill the crankcase with oil, pull the DME relay, pull the wire that goes from the coil to the distributor, pull the spark plugs, screw the compression gauge into the hole where the plug came out. Have a friend, or some other volunteer turn the key...etc.
You can rent (leave a refundable deposit, like $20 or so) a compression test kit from O'Reiley or whatever big auto parts store is near you.
If the results of the compression test are bad = each cylinder is less than 135 psi, or there is a variance of more than 10 - 15 psi between cylinders then you have a bad headgasket.
If the results of the compression test are OK = each cylinder is 135 or more, then its probably just the oil cooler.
Either way, I'd find out more before you decide to get rid of the car.
09-19-2003, 12:59 PM
#30
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I don't think anybody's mentioned this but a leakdown test is another test you might want to try. It is different from a compression test since it is not measuring the piston compression; it is meant to check for leaks in the cylinders (from bad rings, bad valves or a headgasket problem).
It is more involved since it requires that you align TDC for each of the cylinders separately (to close the valves and have an air tight cylinder) and then apply compressed air to the cylinder via a leak down tester screwed into the spark plug hole. Typical readings should be 95% or better.
As part of this test, you'll be able to hear leaks into the system. If air is leaking from the headgasket to the coolant, there should be bubbles in the coolant developing and this can be heard/seen. The applied pressure in the system is usually 100psi; that's alot of pressure.
*****
It is more involved since it requires that you align TDC for each of the cylinders separately (to close the valves and have an air tight cylinder) and then apply compressed air to the cylinder via a leak down tester screwed into the spark plug hole. Typical readings should be 95% or better.
As part of this test, you'll be able to hear leaks into the system. If air is leaking from the headgasket to the coolant, there should be bubbles in the coolant developing and this can be heard/seen. The applied pressure in the system is usually 100psi; that's alot of pressure.
*****