1983 Porsche 944 Garage find (29 yr hibernation)
11-21-2015, 01:27 PM
#91
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11-21-2015, 02:46 PM
#92
Drifting
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There are some green coolants that are phosphate free as well. Just look at the small print on the back of the bottle and it will say. I have found phosphate free green Prestone but it's hit or miss which box stores have it.
11-21-2015, 06:01 PM
#93
Three Wheelin'
My original car came with green Porsche coolant, and the stuff I bought a couple of years ago with the P/A/VW part # in a white 1 gallon container over the parts counter at the dealership was also green. Next spring the group all get a new coolant change and we will see what color it is from the dealership I buy it at.....
I do believe the pink Porsche coolant you speak of eniak, is the stuff recommended since the advent of the Boxster, Cayman, 996 and onward era.
My Audis always had the green coolant from their brand as well, and unless there is a color change just recently to all pink across the Porsche line I am not aware of, the coolant is a phosphate free green, and carries a ZVW part number for Golfs, Rabbits, Audi Quattros, Porsche 924/944/968/928 series of mid 70s to mid 90s water coolers.
Anyone out there working behind the Porsche dealership parts counter that can confirm these part numbers and apps ?
I do believe the pink Porsche coolant you speak of eniak, is the stuff recommended since the advent of the Boxster, Cayman, 996 and onward era.
My Audis always had the green coolant from their brand as well, and unless there is a color change just recently to all pink across the Porsche line I am not aware of, the coolant is a phosphate free green, and carries a ZVW part number for Golfs, Rabbits, Audi Quattros, Porsche 924/944/968/928 series of mid 70s to mid 90s water coolers.
Anyone out there working behind the Porsche dealership parts counter that can confirm these part numbers and apps ?
11-22-2015, 09:41 PM
#94
Rennlist Member
Check out the Pentosin Antifreeze. AutoZone usually carries it in 1 liter and 1 gallon containers. It comes in Red, pink, green and blue. We sell some to the VW, MB and Audi folks who have just come from the dealer and are looking for something else. I don't know what the dealer gets for their coolants. But at least they are obtainable from a different source.
11-23-2015, 12:29 PM
#95
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According to a knowledgeable and trusted source that works directly with Porsche AG, Porsche changed their coolant colors multiple times from green to yellow to now pink which is Zerex formulation G-40. He also states that all Porsche coolants are compatible regardless of color, but that only applies to Porsche branded...well rebranded, coolant.
In street cars, I only use fluids direct from Porsche. The race cars are a different story.
In street cars, I only use fluids direct from Porsche. The race cars are a different story.
11-23-2015, 02:25 PM
#97
Three Wheelin'
According to a knowledgeable and trusted source that works directly with Porsche AG, Porsche changed their coolant colors multiple times from green to yellow to now pink which is Zerex formulation G-40. He also states that all Porsche coolants are compatible regardless of color, but that only applies to Porsche branded...well rebranded, coolant.
In street cars, I only use fluids direct from Porsche. The race cars are a different story.
In street cars, I only use fluids direct from Porsche. The race cars are a different story.
Thanks for the verification and enlightenment on this ......
11-24-2015, 10:33 PM
#98
MGJ I found the ZVW 327 301 tire gauge listed in a 1983 VW accessory catalog. Maybe VW sold them to VW buyers and Porsche included one no charge. http://chris.chemidl.in/1983-vw-accessory-catalog/
11-24-2015, 10:57 PM
#99
Three Wheelin'
Possibly.
Very cool info in this catalogue .... Thanks for the research !
notice the same air compressor for airing up tires ?
Really bummed we didn't get the 'fanfare horns' option )-;
Very cool info in this catalogue .... Thanks for the research !
notice the same air compressor for airing up tires ?
Really bummed we didn't get the 'fanfare horns' option )-;
11-24-2015, 11:37 PM
#100
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
MGJ I found the ZVW 327 301 tire gauge listed in a 1983 VW accessory catalog. Maybe VW sold them to VW buyers and Porsche included one no charge. http://chris.chemidl.in/1983-vw-accessory-catalog/
Also, I would like to get a set of Fuchs as a second set of wheels for my 83 944. What sizes fit best? 7X16 et 23 and 8X16 et 15?
11-24-2015, 11:42 PM
#101
That ZVW number has had my curiosity up so I did a little digging to satisfy it 
An EBAY search turned up nothing but I found two of the correct VDO gauges. Both were missing the case which is probably common. I noticed the compressor too, same as ours. It's too bad the prices weren't filled in 
An EBAY search turned up nothing but I found two of the correct VDO gauges. Both were missing the case which is probably common. I noticed the compressor too, same as ours. It's too bad the prices weren't filled in
11-25-2015, 12:15 AM
#102
Three Wheelin'
The original '82-'83 - 944s came with 7x16, black centered FUCHS wheels. Date codes would be important at this juncture in time, and be about 1 month or less in application.
They follow typical European readout. For instance a July- '83 built car would properly wear a date reading looking like this:
up to about ---- 28 ( week )
15 ( date )
83 ( year )
I think I have that sequence right. I am not near a set of wheels right now to verify this, but believe from memory this is what it looks like on the inside of one of the paddles or petals of a FUCHS. It may be reversed from this, but cannot see it in my mind's eye.
If it were me, I would begin a search right away. It may take awhile to locate a full set with all the right numbers and in good condition. Anodizing should be a goal to attain in the perfect category or you will need to have them re$tored. That will be co$tly in the long run. And, proper care will be essential in their upkeep. NO steel wool to shine them up, because proper original looks are a kind of a 'liquid mercury' appearance. Milky grey to silvery in a muted cast..... hard to describe, but once you see it, the looks never leave your memory. Harvey Weidman of Weidman Wheels in northern CA. does superb restorations and will be able to answer any and all questions with confidence. He has been supplying Concours level , award winning wheels for many decades. He is a real GURU when it comes to wheels. Expect to pay. AND wait, commensurately. He will be over the moon when you tell him your mileage and story. Results will come, maybe not easily or quickly, but they will come accurately.
BEST wishes with the search. Your car deserves it !
11-25-2015, 10:03 PM
#103
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Yes, that is the air compressor. It came in a yellow and black cardboard box.
The original '82-'83 - 944s came with 7x16, black centered FUCHS wheels. Date codes would be important at this juncture in time, and be about 1 month or less in application.
They follow typical European readout. For instance a July- '83 built car would properly wear a date reading looking like this:
up to about ---- 28 ( week )
15 ( date )
83 ( year )
I think I have that sequence right. I am not near a set of wheels right now to verify this, but believe from memory this is what it looks like on the inside of one of the paddles or petals of a FUCHS. It may be reversed from this, but cannot see it in my mind's eye.
If it were me, I would begin a search right away. It may take awhile to locate a full set with all the right numbers and in good condition. Anodizing should be a goal to attain in the perfect category or you will need to have them re$tored. That will be co$tly in the long run. And, proper care will be essential in their upkeep. NO steel wool to shine them up, because proper original looks are a kind of a 'liquid mercury' appearance. Milky grey to silvery in a muted cast..... hard to describe, but once you see it, the looks never leave your memory. Harvey Weidman of Weidman Wheels in northern CA. does superb restorations and will be able to answer any and all questions with confidence. He has been supplying Concours level , award winning wheels for many decades. He is a real GURU when it comes to wheels. Expect to pay. AND wait, commensurately. He will be over the moon when you tell him your mileage and story. Results will come, maybe not easily or quickly, but they will come accurately.
BEST wishes with the search. Your car deserves it !
The original '82-'83 - 944s came with 7x16, black centered FUCHS wheels. Date codes would be important at this juncture in time, and be about 1 month or less in application.
They follow typical European readout. For instance a July- '83 built car would properly wear a date reading looking like this:
up to about ---- 28 ( week )
15 ( date )
83 ( year )
I think I have that sequence right. I am not near a set of wheels right now to verify this, but believe from memory this is what it looks like on the inside of one of the paddles or petals of a FUCHS. It may be reversed from this, but cannot see it in my mind's eye.
If it were me, I would begin a search right away. It may take awhile to locate a full set with all the right numbers and in good condition. Anodizing should be a goal to attain in the perfect category or you will need to have them re$tored. That will be co$tly in the long run. And, proper care will be essential in their upkeep. NO steel wool to shine them up, because proper original looks are a kind of a 'liquid mercury' appearance. Milky grey to silvery in a muted cast..... hard to describe, but once you see it, the looks never leave your memory. Harvey Weidman of Weidman Wheels in northern CA. does superb restorations and will be able to answer any and all questions with confidence. He has been supplying Concours level , award winning wheels for many decades. He is a real GURU when it comes to wheels. Expect to pay. AND wait, commensurately. He will be over the moon when you tell him your mileage and story. Results will come, maybe not easily or quickly, but they will come accurately.
BEST wishes with the search. Your car deserves it !
My cookie cutter wheels have some corrosion and I plan on getting them restored. Do the ATS cookie cutter wheels need to receive an anodized finish too?
So, correct me if I am wrong, but Fuchs that will fit an 83 944 would be 7X16 and 8X16 each with 23 et?
As always, thank you for your insight.
Happy Thanksgiving to all.
11-25-2015, 11:02 PM
#104
Three Wheelin'
NO
The only 944 FUCHS wheels which came on an '82/'83 car is the 7x16, BOTH front and rear. Please use the chart on Clark's Garage or 944Online for verification of the correct sizing and E.T. for your year.
As far as I know, the ONLY two wheel fitments on the early car for alloys until '84 was the base wheel in ATS (cast alloy) and known as the cookies which you show on your car. The option code number ---- again from memory and may NOT be correct is #395 for light forged alloys or the FUCHS in 7 inch wide by 16. The staggered wheels came later and first showed up as 7x15 and 8x15 on the '84 and 85.1 cars in FUCHS, but the cookies stayed at 7x15 as they never made them in 8 inch wide OR in 16s. All of these will interchange, but if concern for originality, then you need the 7 inchers in 16 inch sizing. Across the parts counter options of wider wheels was ALSO available and this is where the wider widths come into play. The wider they are the more expensive they will be. Especially when one is sizing for lets say a 930. Those rears are astronomical in value. Maybe this is what you saw. ( a friend about 5 years ago had mounted on his 944 track car a set of RSR wheels from a 911 in the '73 vintage era. He sold them at Hershey and got about 7 grand then , from a guy needing them to complete a date coded RSR restoration ).
Back to the FUCHs of your era which is what we are concerned with...... you MAY fit wider wheels on back and they will work, but they were not original fitment, so if that is what you are looking for to keep it OE and pure in the most strict sense, then referral to those charts will show the available wheels and sizes.
You must be made aware of the '86 year offering as they are different in look in 16s in FUCHS. The face of the wheel is shallower and lip edge is thinner.
The standard wheels from 85.2 forward were the cast wheels known as phonedials which were offered in various sizes , et. and look, widths. I know you are asking about the FUCHS as pertaining to fit on your car, but just trying to give an overview inclusive of all the other choices so when confronted with them, will know where they fall in fitment and timeline of the car.
Date coding is helpful when in doubt as to the year of fit. Refer to it to dispel questions on the wheel you are looking at.
Again, Harvey Weidman is the go to guy in answering these questions or verifying EXACT wheel to every Porsche made. Ask him if in doubt. He is the definitive source ( as well as others here, but Harvey has the restoration wheel business and has these records at his fingertips.... his reputation is staked on it.)
A quick note on the cookies you asked about. The rim is a 'lathe cut' edge and then covered in a very thick plastic coated finish meant to resist pitting from brake dust and car wash soaps, as well as bird droppings, dog ****, or chloride road salts. They held up for a while until moisture got beneath the clear plastic coating, then the aluminum corrosion began. In earnest. These wheels do not have an anodized finish like a FUCHS wheel does, as that is an electrostatically charged coating which changes the molecular structure of the aluminum to resist the elements. BUT, they are very vulnerable to automatic car wash soaps and need cleaning by a balanced PH soap such as P21S or the Porsche branded cleaner. Anything which is harsher will leave a milky white residue, especially if put on a hot wheel or in direct sunlight. The finish WILL last for years ( mine show like new and have NEVER been refinished ) but you need to clean fastidiously and carefully, with a proper rubbing into the finish, a good dose of Vaseline into the wheel. Easy Peasy. IF care is your byword.
Worst thing you can do to a set of FUCHS alloys is to rub the rim edge with steel wool to bring up the shine. They were not meant to be shiny like chrome, the original finish has a muted, liquid mercury-like look. Kind of a grey cast with slight 'marbling' to it. So many attack the edge with a brillo pad or a light sanding with steel wool or fine sand paper, then BOOM. Original finish is lost and re-anodizing is required. Think of thi$ a$ a VERY expen$ive le$$on learned. But try and tell someone he just ruined his 5,000 dollar set of wheels this, and YOU become the anti-Christ.
The only 944 FUCHS wheels which came on an '82/'83 car is the 7x16, BOTH front and rear. Please use the chart on Clark's Garage or 944Online for verification of the correct sizing and E.T. for your year.
As far as I know, the ONLY two wheel fitments on the early car for alloys until '84 was the base wheel in ATS (cast alloy) and known as the cookies which you show on your car. The option code number ---- again from memory and may NOT be correct is #395 for light forged alloys or the FUCHS in 7 inch wide by 16. The staggered wheels came later and first showed up as 7x15 and 8x15 on the '84 and 85.1 cars in FUCHS, but the cookies stayed at 7x15 as they never made them in 8 inch wide OR in 16s. All of these will interchange, but if concern for originality, then you need the 7 inchers in 16 inch sizing. Across the parts counter options of wider wheels was ALSO available and this is where the wider widths come into play. The wider they are the more expensive they will be. Especially when one is sizing for lets say a 930. Those rears are astronomical in value. Maybe this is what you saw. ( a friend about 5 years ago had mounted on his 944 track car a set of RSR wheels from a 911 in the '73 vintage era. He sold them at Hershey and got about 7 grand then , from a guy needing them to complete a date coded RSR restoration ).
Back to the FUCHs of your era which is what we are concerned with...... you MAY fit wider wheels on back and they will work, but they were not original fitment, so if that is what you are looking for to keep it OE and pure in the most strict sense, then referral to those charts will show the available wheels and sizes.
You must be made aware of the '86 year offering as they are different in look in 16s in FUCHS. The face of the wheel is shallower and lip edge is thinner.
The standard wheels from 85.2 forward were the cast wheels known as phonedials which were offered in various sizes , et. and look, widths. I know you are asking about the FUCHS as pertaining to fit on your car, but just trying to give an overview inclusive of all the other choices so when confronted with them, will know where they fall in fitment and timeline of the car.
Date coding is helpful when in doubt as to the year of fit. Refer to it to dispel questions on the wheel you are looking at.
Again, Harvey Weidman is the go to guy in answering these questions or verifying EXACT wheel to every Porsche made. Ask him if in doubt. He is the definitive source ( as well as others here, but Harvey has the restoration wheel business and has these records at his fingertips.... his reputation is staked on it.)
A quick note on the cookies you asked about. The rim is a 'lathe cut' edge and then covered in a very thick plastic coated finish meant to resist pitting from brake dust and car wash soaps, as well as bird droppings, dog ****, or chloride road salts. They held up for a while until moisture got beneath the clear plastic coating, then the aluminum corrosion began. In earnest. These wheels do not have an anodized finish like a FUCHS wheel does, as that is an electrostatically charged coating which changes the molecular structure of the aluminum to resist the elements. BUT, they are very vulnerable to automatic car wash soaps and need cleaning by a balanced PH soap such as P21S or the Porsche branded cleaner. Anything which is harsher will leave a milky white residue, especially if put on a hot wheel or in direct sunlight. The finish WILL last for years ( mine show like new and have NEVER been refinished ) but you need to clean fastidiously and carefully, with a proper rubbing into the finish, a good dose of Vaseline into the wheel. Easy Peasy. IF care is your byword.
Worst thing you can do to a set of FUCHS alloys is to rub the rim edge with steel wool to bring up the shine. They were not meant to be shiny like chrome, the original finish has a muted, liquid mercury-like look. Kind of a grey cast with slight 'marbling' to it. So many attack the edge with a brillo pad or a light sanding with steel wool or fine sand paper, then BOOM. Original finish is lost and re-anodizing is required. Think of thi$ a$ a VERY expen$ive le$$on learned. But try and tell someone he just ruined his 5,000 dollar set of wheels this, and YOU become the anti-Christ.
Last edited by mrgreenjeans; 11-25-2015 at 11:25 PM.
11-25-2015, 11:13 PM
#105
Race Car
Put the 16x8 with the 15mm offset for the 78-89 911s on the rear with 7x16 up front. Keep the original cookies for later if you sell the car. I had those on my 83 and 86 NAs and they fill the rear wheel wells out nicely.
A few years ago I picked up a non running 84 that had 15x7 and 15x8 color matched Fuchs. Option code sticker showed the car came that way from the factory.
A few years ago I picked up a non running 84 that had 15x7 and 15x8 color matched Fuchs. Option code sticker showed the car came that way from the factory.