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I am new to the forum and am looking at a basket case 928 with A/T and 158k miles.
Have not seen the car yet, but have talked to the owner and am thinking of buying the car.
1) It runs but the timing belt has unknown mileage and age and I have seen replacement kits from $200-900, is there a particular kit that is better than the rest?
2) The transmission shifts smoothly but always early, I have read about a governor that that can get gunky and need cleaning or is this assign of a major tranny issue? Could a tranny shop handle this, if I need a rebuild or would I need to find a porsche specialist?
3) It has a few electrical issues, one being the pass. window doesn't work. Is the 928 electrical system fairly easy to track down issues or are multiple systems on the same circuit?
4) Sunroof works slowly, is it more likely to be the motor or is it common to be a track or lube issue?
While I have never owned a 928, I have restored several cars and want to get a feel for if I should pass or whether this might be a viable project for me, so any help is greatly appreciated.
The timing belt is NOT critical if it is a USA spec 1984 it does NOT bend valves it just stops running. The transmission is mostly Mercedes all but the differential. The electrical is pretty simple just a LOT OF IT !! Sunroof is probably lube and adjustments. Just recognize that the 1984 USA automatic it not a very high performance car when everything is working perfectly. Nor is it considered highly collectible. Restoring a 928 is extremely expensive....just keeping it running is easily $2,000- $3,000 a year. So best to actually test drive a few BEFORE you start spending money to be sure it is what you want.
The best way to spend your time right now.....read the following linked thread....
All of it! Many, many of your questions will be answered, and I guarantee you will save time and money. https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...questions.html
If you do a search on this forum, and/or just start exploring posts you will find many answers to your questions about owning and working on 928s!
Overall, whether this is for you depends on (1) your skill level and what you are trying to accomplish (eg, restoration, time-killer, re-invent the wheel) and (2) how much they are asking for the car!
Jason
Welcome to the forum. I would start by recommending a read of this thread...it's pretty much 'required reading' to own one of these. You have definitely come to the best place for help with these cars!
To answer what I can of your questions (I have an '83 by the way, so in the same 'family' as your car... 1) It runs but the timing belt has unknown mileage and age and I have seen replacement kits from $200-900, is there a particular kit that is better than the rest?
Not sure about the quality of any given kit, but not knowing the history I would probably go ahead and change the water pump too and do it all asap. The 16V engines like ours will not self destruct if the belt goes, but you will be stranded on the side of the road.
2) The transmission shifts smoothly but always early, I have read about a governor that that can get gunky and need cleaning or is this assign of a major tranny issue? Could a tranny shop handle this, if I need a rebuild or would I need to find a porsche specialist?
I have a 5 spd. so not familiar with the autos but someone will chime in.
3) It has a few electrical issues, one being the pass. window doesn't work. Is the 928 electrical system fairly easy to track down issues or are multiple systems on the same circuit? The 928 was WAY ahead of its time in terms of car design in the late 70s/early 80s. The electrical system is fairly complicated due to all of the systems involved. Wiring diagrams are available and just about anything can be sorted. A good starting point is to clean all of the grounds around the car - details are in the thread above. The particular window issue you are referring to is probably the switch or the motor in the door seized/rusted due to water intrusion.
4) Sunroof works slowly, is it more likely to be the motor or is it common to be a track or lube issue? My experience has always been track/lube. The original factory lube gets gummed up with age and slows everything down. There are a couple of good threads about sunroof operation floating around. The sunroof is somewhat challenging to adjust correctly.
Hope it all works out and definitely use the concerns you have listed as bargaining points for the price of the car.
Hello Randy. I have an '84 auto that is lower miles than yours but hadn't run in the previous 10 years when I bought it. So you are ahead of the game a little compared to where I was, maybe. I say maybe because you may run into issues I didn't have. But just the fact that yours runs is a good first step.
As James says above, the US '84 auto isn't the highest performance car in the the line 928 line-up. But compared to today's standards neither is a '95 GTS. He is also correct about it not being as highly collectible as other years. But if you are not looking to have the most collectible year of 928 (which is up for debate anyway) and instead are looking to get into a 928 at a lower price point and restore it back driver quality, then in my opinion the US model '83-'84 auto 928s are hands down the ones to get. Here is why. First, Porsche made more of these years for any common engine/year type 928. So there are more parts available than any other year 928 across the board. Second, the 4.7L US engine has the highest horsepower and torque available on a 928 that is also non-interference. So no sweating a top end or engine rebuild if the timing belt system fails. Lastly, the performance, particularly at highway speeds, is going to be better than the early US cars.
All that said, plan on spending anywhere from $10-$15K to get it to a reliable driver conditions. Sure you can spend much less and get it roadworthy, but when you finally get it to a point where all the deferred mx is caught up, you'll be about where I said. Of course you can easily double that if you start restoring the body, paint and interior.
I will disagree with James on one point though, and that is yearly operating cost. At least in my experience. I spent about $15K over 18 months to get it running and all the mechanicals caught up and since then I would estimate my yearly upkeep to be on the order of $1200/year.
Good luck. You've come to the right place. And don't forget to post some pictures!
Looking to keep, not for resale and I should note I just got rid of a 07 DB9 and THANKS for all the help and links.
Are manuals (year specific) easy to come by?
Well, you haven't read the "New Visitor" sticky yet, have you?
If you had, you'd know that there are links to free downloads for the owner's manual (year specific) and the Work Shop Manual (comprehensive) in there. There's also a CD-ROM set called the "Moorehouse CDs" that has the entire WSM, parts catalog (has exploded views of everything), tech specs, updates, service bulletins and a lot more. $75 from one of the best vendors for these cars, Roger at 928s R Us.
To answer your questions from the 1st post:
1 - Not sure who/where you are seeing a 'kit' from. The TB/WP (timing belt/water pump - pump is usually replaced at the same time) job can be as simple as the belt, water pump, rebuild kit for the tensioner and a few gaskets & seals. Or you might need to replace the cam gears, oil pump gear, oil pump seals, cam seals, crank seal, power steering reservoir, and maybe one or two other things. The "While You Are In There" (WYAIT) rabbit hole can get pretty bad. If you aren't on a tight time schedule, the best idea is to get it apart and evaluate what you do and don't need. This is where Roger is incredibly helpful. He knows these cars very well and will make sure you do get what you need, and don't get what you don't need. DO NOT, under any circumstances, 'go cheap' on the water pump. Good ones aren't cheap and cheap ones aren't good. If you go through Roger, you will not be able to get junk. He won't sell it.
2 - The trans is an 80s era auto. Torque converter, planetary sets, bands & clutches. It's entirely possible the bowden cable isn't adjusted correctly. If it's shifting smoothly, it's likely ok. It may be just your perception of 'early' too.
3 - The 928 was one of the most complicated and advanced cars of it's time. Today, not so much. Nothing is integrated. Each circuit is separate and independent (mostly). It has a few quirks, and 35 year old wiring is 35 years old. Windows could be the switch, could be the motor, could be the wiring (the part where the door opens gets flexed and is prone to having the conductor break inside the insulation).
But it's all basic electrical stuff. High school shop class level electrical knowledge will get you through almost all of it.
4 - I would guess it's a 'gunked up' issue. If nobody has taken it apart and properly cleaned & lubed the system, then the gunk in there will be considerable. The motor is just an electric motor. There's a really good write up on the sunroof in the "New Visitor" sticky.
Last thing - You said "basket case".
How bad? Interior? Exterior (paint)? Glass?
One thing that is repeated throughout the New Visitor sticky is to buy the best car you can afford. It's almost always more expensive to fix/restore a car than it is to buy one in better shape. As was noted, the 80 - 84 US are the 'red-headed step child" of the 928 world. Least loved, least valued. You can easily put thousands and thousands of dollars into it, only to have a car that isn't worth $10k in the end.
Even doing your own work, an interior rehab is expensive. Classic 9, up in Dearborn is one of the 'go to' places for the 928. Excellent work, but not cheap.
Paint is the same thing. If you can do it yourself, it's a ton of work to do it right. If you pay someone, it's a ton of money.
But if you are looking to get one, get it running, and 'make it nicer' over time, then...
Plan on spending a lot of money in the process.
They are wonderful cars, but not cheap to own. Less so to restore.
They all have some.issues, but trust me it's worth working through them as they are amazing cars. Totally ahead of their time and still able to cut it on a saddle drive or something more challenging. I have 3 of which only 1 on the road atm, a 152k mile manual with full history and pretty much up to date maintenance after a busy year last year when I bought it. My advi e would be put in the effort and or $ if you are going to keep it otherwise buy something simpler/more modern.
Hi Randy,
I have some advice for you. Unless you just like fixing things, stay away from a "basket case" 928. Any major system catastrophe will almost exceed the value of the car. A good repaint will cost $10K or more. Engine and transmission rebuilds are expensive both in parts and labor. Electrical is labor intensive and demanding unless you have a knack for it. That said, if at least one or two major systems are very good, you may be able to enjoy the car. I think it was Jim Bailey who said "he's just $15,000 away from a $10,000 car". It's easy with a 928. You need it to have something going for it, either your talent or something very good about the car.
Best of luck, I really enjoy my 84, but I was lucky and did a lot of work,
Dave
Of course you can easily double that if you start restoring the body, paint and interior.
I will disagree with James on one point though, and that is yearly operating cost. At least in my experience. I spent about $15K over 18 months to get it running and all the mechanicals caught up and since then I would estimate my yearly upkeep to be on the order of $1200/year.
!
OK so spend 15 k in a year and 6 months doing all the labor yourself and then it only cost 1,200 a year !! Amortize the 15 k over ten years and you get 2,700 a year with no body , paint, or interior restoration, Like I said 928s can be expensive to restore.
Hard to see it compare favorably to a 450 hp 2007 Aston.
For the OP, when you do see the car, take some pictures of the interior, exterior, engine and a few under the car in the rear (transmission) and front belly. I think we could give you a pretty good estimate of what it would cost to bring it back and then you could decide to walk away or take the plunge. James, as always, is spot-on; you could easily spend $10K in paint, $5K for interior and $$$ on deferred maintenance and still only have an $10K car. Unless you enjoy wrenching, most would say you're better off buying the best you can afford, well maintained car and leave the basket cases for those who already know these cars.
Originally Posted by boca928s
which model years 928 are the most collectable?
As Tom once posted years ago
But seriously, each model has their unicorns.
OK so spend 15 k in a year and 6 months doing all the labor yourself and then it only cost 1,200 a year !! Amortize the 15 k over ten years and you get 2,700 a year with no body , paint, or interior restoration, Like I said 928s can be expensive to restore.
Hard to see it compare favorably to a 450 hp 2007 Aston.
DB9 cost me 2,700 for 4 window regulators and I did the work. In 3 years of ownership and 40k miles, I spent close to $15k, so I am familiar with the cost of owning older cars. One reason I like the 928, is the LSx conversion possibility and the looks. I can paint a car myself and I have a buddy who does interior work, going to look at the car next weekend and we will see were it goes.
OK so spend 15 k in a year and 6 months doing all the labor yourself and then it only cost 1,200 a year !! Amortize the 15 k over ten years and you get 2,700 a year with no body , paint, or interior restoration, Like I said 928s can be expensive to restore.
Hard to see it compare favorably to a 450 hp 2007 Aston.
So you were talking about restoration costs when you stated, ".just keeping it running is easily $2,000- $3,000 a year."? That's confusing. To me the cost of restoration is the money spent to get a car in a running condition, not yearly maintenance to upkeep it after the restoration. I spent 15K to just get my car running in the first place. Now that it does I spend about 1200/year to "just keep it running". Sure if you want to amoritize all the costs then the yearly cost will be higher. But that's like buying a brand new Porsche for say $140,000 with 7 year maintenance warranty and stating that it cost you 20K a year to keep it running for 7 years.
The idea that 928s are expensive to restore and maintain is not unique to a 928. Any old classic is expensive relative to its value. You can restore an old Volvo for less than a 928 and when it's done it's also worth less. But none of that is the point. Almost no one makes money restoring old cars. So the question should never be how much does it cost to own x car or y car. The only questions in my opinion that matter are this, what car do you love to drive, love to look at, love the history about, love to tell other people about? Get those boxes checked first and then the money to sustain that will feel well spent.
DB9 cost me 2,700 for 4 window regulators and I did the work. In 3 years of ownership and 40k miles, I spent close to $15k, so I am familiar with the cost of owning older cars. One reason I like the 928, is the LSx conversion possibility and the looks. I can paint a car myself and I have a buddy who does interior work, going to look at the car next weekend and we will see were it goes.
Thanks for all the help!
Like I said, the car has to have something going for it, and it may be your talent. 928 parts will be much less than DB9 parts.
Good luck. I really like my 84.
Dave
04-19-2019, 01:05 PM
Looking at a 84 and have a bunch of questions
with no body , paint, or interior restoration, Like I said 928s can be expensive to restore.
