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Semi-retired, as of Feb 1, 2023.
The days of free technical advice are over.
Free consultations will no longer be available.
Will still be in the shop, isolated and exclusively working on project cars, developmental work and products, engines and transmissions.
Have fun with your 928's people!
Can we still be fans of the OEM coolant and distilled water or do I have to go to Chernobyl for the water now? Greg I'm really lost...or should we replace the water with liquid mercury?
Oh, and high school chemistry here. ...distilled water is H2O...a stable molecule...there are no ions of anything to leach....that's the point of distillation...3 atoms and no ions...is it too simple for this crowd?
Then let's change it and start filling our cooling systems with mercury...that should keep this thread going into perpetuity for no real reason....
The few drops of coolant that get under the gasket no longer circulates with the rest of the coolant, but is still electrically connected, so some electrical process could over time use up all of the "protection" stuff. The badly damaged heads I've seen look sort of like termite damage with narrow trails eaten away in the heads.
Changing coolant every two years is a great plan, except when it doesn't happen, previous owners, me etc.
I wonder if distilled doesn't make a steam cleaner work better, not just reduce calcium buildup?
Detail guys use a lot of RO water. Local supply store has a 1000 gallon tank with a high pressure RO system he claims ends up with 99.9% pure for spotless rinse.
Water ("pure") is a good solvent due to the nature of the molecule itself... It is a charged molecule on its "purest" day. Charged negativity... It is molecularly triangular in shape and, with oxegens high electronegativity, pulls electrons (unequal sharing of electrons) from the 2 hydrogen atoms... Polarizing it... It's a simple concept really... When water interacts with other atoms and molecules it exerts this electro negativity on whatever positively charged portion or entirety of said substance, always altering the behavior and properties of the substance and thus, changing its own...
With heat, pressure and contaminants,,, overtime,,, (aluminum desolved from the engine itself being a contaminant) acids are produced... **** happens. There is no antifreeze that is going to completely stop this from happening.
The charge of an aluminum ion is typically 3+. This is because the element's atomic number is 13, reflecting the fact that it has 13 electrons and 13 protons. The valence shell of aluminum has three electrons, and per the octet rule, these three electrons are lost resulting in just 10 electrons and 13 protons. Positive charge.
The idea that there is surprise or a belief that damage can be completely prevented in an engine at the point where two sections of the engine are mated,,, with the presence of liquid water under wild fluctuations of pressures and temperatures,,, with the presence of low level electricity (block as ground) is,,,, surprising...
Because I'm board and figured the waters were not muddy enough, I decided to refresh my memory as to why the FerrariChat world overwhelmingly recommends G-05. This first came up for myself 12 or so years ago as I started to work on the engine out procedure for my fathers 355GTS. At that time I decided if this was good enough for the Ferrari, it was good enough for my 928's and other cars in the fleet.
When the discussion comes up between G-05 and G-48, the issue they are concerned with is cavitation around the cylinder liners. G-48 does not have nitrates which act as cavitation prohibitors. At least per this guy: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/th...post-143898476
Yes I'm fully aware our cars do not have cylinder liners. I found this interesting as a very specific reason why one type of engine needs a certain kind of coolant.
Sure... Or plain ol water from a puddle, lake or stream...push come to,,,,
Keep it moving, happily, giant cheese grin, screaming with head out O the window... These cars are FUN!!!! That's the point... Not to be confused with a constant source of worry, fear, paranoia or caution...
We have a soft water system on our well. IF I were to use 'tap' water, it would be from the hot tap. That has already been maintained at an elevated temperature for a while, and some (or much) of the suspended 'stuff' would have coagulated/precipitated out (drain a few gallon from your hot water tank via the valve at the bottom if you want to see what has happened in that big hot tank!). Probably should drain some out every 6-12 months to just clean up the stuff in the bottom of the water heater anyway!
The idea that there is surprise or a belief that damage can be completely prevented in an engine at the point where two sections of the engine are mated,,, with the presence of liquid water under wild fluctuations of pressures and temperatures,,, with the presence of low level electricity (block as ground) is,,,, surprising...
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I don't think any of us believe it is possible to keep any damage from occurring....just trying to make sure we are doing our best to keep the damage to a minimum.
If the deterioration that has occurred in the past 30 years keeps going at the same rate, 30 years from now, the only 928's will be sitting in museums...never able to be run because of coolant damage.
Forget belts, tensioners, TBF. The real "silent killer" is coolant damage, from neglect (and possibly from using the improper coolant.)
Most everyone here is dealing with theory, rumors, and Internet Myth.
Because I deal with a huge quantity of 928 engines that come apart for one reason or another, I get to see things in real life.
Check this out:
^^^^^Cylinder "fungus"
Cylinder "fungus" is everywhere!
^^^^^Two pictures above of cylinder head gasket that was "sitting against" head.
^^^^^^The above two pictures are of the same gasket, but from the block side (exposed to water running around the cylinders.)
Real life stuff. Engine assembled in 2011. 34,000 miles. Cylinder walls were spotless (block was cleaned chemically for Nicosil coating.) Distilled water and Porsche Factory coolant, changed once when belt/water pump replaced.
So distilling this long thread down (pardon the pun) what is the "proper" coolant if as it seems Greg indicates above that there are improper coolants. Are we saying it's not G05?
I have used G05 since getting my car and it has been changed a couple of times in that 10 years for various radiator out events but I have never had the heads off.
So distilling this long thread down (pardon the pun) what is the "proper" coolant if as it seems Greg indicates above that there are improper coolants. Are we saying it's not G05?
I have used G05 since getting my car and it has been changed a couple of times in that 10 years for various radiator out events but I have never had the heads off.
Since Valvoline recommends G48 for the early Porsche engines and has no reference to G05, I'm going to try that on the cars that I don't have history on. (Engines have not rebuilt, have not changed the head gaskets on, do not suspect that the coolant got regularly changed over the life of the vehicle, etc.)
I'm going to use Pentofrost NF on newer engines that I know the history of/suspect things are fantastic inside. Pentosin specifically lists this coolant for the early Porsche water cooled engines.....tough to go too far wrong with that, I'm guessing.
I don't think any of us believe it is possible to keep any damage from occurring....just trying to make sure we are doing our best to keep the damage to a minimum.
If the deterioration that has occurred in the past 30 years keeps going at the same rate, 30 years from now, the only 928's will be sitting in museums...never able to be run because of coolant damage.
Forget belts, tensioners, TBF. The real "silent killer" is coolant damage, from neglect (and possibly from using the improper coolant.)
11-20-2019, 10:07 PM
