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In mid-refresh I've decided to switch from the planned silicone gasket to Greg Brown's new oil pan gasket. I already have the stud kit on hand, as well as the original bolts. Given that I will not use the silicone gasket, is there any good reason to put the stud kit in anyway?
Each one has pluses and minuses.
I'm sure I will not get all of each in this post. Others certainly will.
Disclaimer - I went with the stud kit.
One advantage of the stud kit is that the studs themselves get lock-tighted into the girdle, and then the nuts are nylock. So the chances of them backing out is far less.
Another is the fact that you can put the gasket over the studs, then the pan, then the nuts. The chances of the gasket slipping and not being on correctly is a lot less. This, however is a bigger advantage when doing it on your back, underneath the car.
The biggest advantage of the bolts is that the nylock nuts have additional torque in the 'nylock' part, so getting proper torque on them (the nuts) is a matter of estimating the extra torque needed to turn the nylock part and adding that to the torque needed to secure the pan. This is a bigger issue on the orange silicone gasket, because the torque needed to secure it is so low.
Another is (of course) originality.
Another is the need to clean the holes out very well to get the studs lock-tighted in, although this should be done with the bolts too (the cleaning).
Yeah, I considered the risk in asking the question and read through the old threads.
My situation is a little different though. With Greg's new gasket the original bolts can be tightened much more than what you would do with cork or silicone gaskets. Much less likely to back out I think, and for sure much less sensitive to precise pressure than using a silicone gasket. My girdle is all prepped for the studs...I just haven't cut down the ones that go over the starter and the crossmember yet. And I'm doing the job on a stand, not under the car.
I do expect this is the last time I will do this job (famous last words!) if I do it right. Just trying to think about if my approach negates the advantages of the studs and nuts. I do like the idea of a cleaner install and a little more room to maneuver with the bolts.
Yup. Being able to properly tighten it with Greg's gasket is a big advantage, regardless of bolts or studs.
Honestly, I don't think there's any significant advantage of one or the other with that gasket.
Of course, others may have different opinions.
If done properly, the gasket will last a very long time. It took me two tries, but the 2nd one has lasted quite nicely for several years now (Silicone gasket & stud kit).
I'm in the same boat. I had the silicone gasket, and the studs are already installed. I am removing the studs and giving them and the silicone gasket to a fellow club member. I have Greg's new gasket and I have bought a good set of used oil pan bolts. I am installing the bolts and calling it good.
One difference is the stud kits are stainless and the original bolts are not. I use stainless whenever I reassemble anything I take apart for ease the next time I take it apart, unless it's a high strength fastener that has a Grade 8 bolt or higher, then I use the proper grade bolt or titanium. I wish Greg's new gasket was out when I did my motor last year. I have the stud kit and silicone gasket currently installed, but did the criss-cross pattern multiple times before it maintained the correct fastener torque on the next pass when I got to that fastener again. My car actually has the 3-piece front cross-member so if I do have to do it again, won't be as terrible.
Spotless oil pan prior to reinstallation
Initial securing of the studs into the block side with loctite (cured 24 hours)
Getting the torque correct for Greg's gasket is a challenge with the nylock-style nuts used in most stud kits. The procedure for the silicone gasket is based on spacing and "squish", and the actual torque numbers are really low as far as tension on each bolt. To that tension-to-torque number, you get to figure out how much of the torque is the friction from the nut on the stud, and how much stretch or squish you really want. For the new gasket, much more dependent on actual pressure for sealing, I'd be looking hard at using the original bolts rather than the nylock-style nuts. For folks that have studs already in place, swap to plain nuts and -maybe- add a drop of LocTite to make sure they stay in place once the torque is set.
For GB gasket use the original bolts - gasket goes on clean (no goo) and use the original torque for the bolts.
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Does it have the "Do It Yourself" manual transmission, or the superior "Fully Equipped by Porsche" Automatic Transmission? George Layton March 2014
928 Owners are ".....a secret sect of quietly assured Porsche pragmatists who in near anonymity appreciate the prodigious, easy going prowess of the 928."
Getting the torque correct for Greg's gasket is a challenge with the nylock-style nuts used in most stud kits. The procedure for the silicone gasket is based on spacing and "squish", and the actual torque numbers are really low as far as tension on each bolt. To that tension-to-torque number, you get to figure out how much of the torque is the friction from the nut on the stud, and how much stretch or squish you really want. For the new gasket, much more dependent on actual pressure for sealing, I'd be looking hard at using the original bolts rather than the nylock-style nuts. For folks that have studs already in place, swap to plain nuts and -maybe- add a drop of LocTite to make sure they stay in place once the torque is set.
As a last resort, we could always ask Greg.
In reality, I don't care...studs or bolts both work fine.
The advantage to this new pan gasket is that it has very little compression and the hardware can be torqued to full torque (72 inch pounds.) I tighten in a crisscross pattern, starting from the center or the pan and working out. I initially torque to 60 inch pounds and then go over the entire pattern at 72 inch pounds. I then check the center hardware....if it does not tighten any further, I call it "done". If the center hardware tightens some more....I'll go over the entire pattern again.
At 72 inch pounds, with a gasket that has very little compression, "extra" pieces (like studs with nylox nuts) is not a requirement....the original hardware should not come loose with those parameters.
However, since both the original bolts and studs work fine at these torque values, you can take you choice....
If I already had studs installed, I'd re-use them.
If the original bolts (in good condition) were what you just removed, by all means use them.
If I had some really rusty, ugly original hardware, I'd call Roger and order a stud kit.
If you just like the look and function of stainless hardware...same thing...call Roger and order a stud kit.
If you are running a pan spacer....well, you need two of my gaskets [one thick and one thin works best (yes, I make both a thin gasket and a thick gasket)] and longer bolts....or studs.
Semi-retired, as of Feb 1, 2023.
The days of free technical advice are over.
Free consultations will no longer be available.
Will still be in the shop, isolated and exclusively working on project cars, developmental work and products, engines and transmissions.
Have fun with your 928's people!
I never thought that 15 years after I pitched the idea of creating a pan stud kit, that it would be such a point of contention. LOL. (credit where credit is due)
My vote is for the double end studs and Greg's gasket. Not a better combination in my opinion.
Not the biggest fan of stainless steel, not because it is a bad idea, but with with my history of dropping bolts, washers and nuts I am committed to bits I can fish out with a magnet.
09-27-2020, 02:50 PM
New oil pan gasket - studs or bolts?
and read through the old threads.
George Layton March 2014
