Christopher Zach

So I'm pretty good at mechanical things, but one thing I never knew much about was paint. Yes, I had the clearcoat peel and disintegrate on my 944S, and I was smart enough to get a professional paint job on my 928S' hood, but the rest of it has always been a mystery and I have restricted myself to washing with auto soap and the occasional wax rinse.

Last year I picked up some paint restorer stuff (I forget exactly what) and did a test apply on my driver's door. Looked good but when it dried I had a white haze on my Prussian blue paint and I figured I had screwed the paint. Wax didn't help (Mothers' Carnuba) so I resigned myself to a door repaint at some point.

Then I went to Frenzy and the Odds and Ends detail guy showed us how to buff out scratches with sandpaper (AIEEEE!!!!!), polish (EEEK!) and a buffer tool (Wow, it looks good!). I asked a lot about ruining the clearcoat, how paints work, and the like and realized that maybe my problem was the clearcoat was fogged or something. Darryl took a look at my door and said it might have been burned down to the paint level (requiring a new paint job) but to try putting some polish on a pad, rubbing, and see if it came out clear (clearcoat intact) or blue (down to paint).

When I got home I tried and sure enough the pad was clear (no paint, thus clearcoat intact). Putting on paint compounding and wiping off didn't do much so I felt with my fingers and could feel a raised roughness where the fogged portions were. Added some water and 2000 grit sandpaper and saw that the water went from clear to cloudy. Maybe I just had that restorer crap on the clearcoat.

Then I did an experiment: I bought a simple Ryobi 18v 6 inch buffer, gently sanded one of the spots on the door, washed it, put on compound, rubbed it in by hand then cleaned off, then used the buffer to apply wax and then to buff dry. No real pressure on the buffer, just put it against the paint and let the orbital bit run for a minute.

On the other half of the door I put down compounding, then used the buffer to rub that in, then wiped it clean and buffed it. Came back this morning and....

The side of the door with the buffer+compound looked perfect. The side with the hand compounding then buffer+wax looked good but I could still see a slight haze swirl.

So, it looks like I can see what the problem is, but here is the question:

1) Is it safe to apply wax to a car with a buffer? I know that there is only so much clearcoat on a car, and if you go too deep it peels and the world ends. But would once a year in the fall be ok then hand applying wax in the spring?
2) Am I screwing something up applying compound with the buffer? I know that's taking something off there, but am I doing it basically right and is a coat of wax afterwards the right way to keep the clearcoat happy?
3) Any other tips?

I'm really glad that I can finally fix this paint problem, but don't want to make life worse down the line. Any thoughts appreciated.

C

khalloudy

Both you 86.5 and 87 are single stage so there should be no clearcoat... if original

Christopher Zach

I can say you're in error on the 87, it was LY3-E paint code which is Crimson Metallic. That thing peeled like an orange, was so sad then I had it repainted by Maaco. Oddly enough if you give them 6 months they do a darn good job :-)

The 86.5 is Prussian blue which I believe was also a metallic.

dr bob

I use a DA polisher to do the lions share of paint care work. Keep the pad speed down, use good products designed for such things, and you'll have good results.


Color-sanding a panel with 1500 grit wet-or dry, the next step for me is Meguiars 105 and 205 compound then polish with the machine, details by hand. Final is a Meguiars synthetic paint sealant for me, applied with the machine in small sections then hand buffed. Waxes and sealants are like blondes vs redheads or "the best motor oil"; the best one is the on that you use very regularly.

There s a detailing forum on Rennlist where many will be happy to share their techniques. For decades I believed that the only way to get a perfect result was a day and a five-gallon pail of elbow grease. I'm a DA convert, especially with the products specifically designed to work with that tool.

Shark2626

You are a complete novice (no offense intended AT ALL!), so just go slow and do exactly what you are doing, research before taking action.

I would be interested in knowing what ‘compound’ you are using. There is polishing compound and then there is the much more aggressive rubbing compound. Stay away from the latter, it can literally buff the paint off the car and you won’t know it until you lift the pad of your polisher!

Meguiar’s has forums that you can peruse and ask questions just like here, but the answers will come from detailing / paint correction enthusiasts. Without seeing your paint but just assuming a generally neglected but not badly degraded paint finish the general recipe for ‘consumer’ grade products is:
1. Wash and dry the car.
2. Use Meguiar’s Clay Bar Kit, about $18
3. Use Meguiar’s Ultimate Compound with your rotary buffer (very effective but also very safe for both a professional or a novice). When you are finished you will know, the car will look amazing! On your car 2-3 applications may be required. The wool pad is the most aggressive. about $10
4. For added depth and shine use Meguiar’s Ultimate Polish ( most effective on darker cars). about $15
5. Finish with Meguiar’s Ultimate Liquid Wax, it has a synthetic component to it. about $20

All the products mentioned should be applied on a cool temperature car in the shade (garage). If you try these and enjoy the experience and the results then you may graduate up to a dual action machine and the Meguiar’s Professional Line, but at this point I would recommend just going slow, using products designed for consumer use, and go as far as you want to go without polishing the paint off of your car.

Christopher Zach

Yep, Novice 101 here. I'm using the Meguiar’s Ultimate Compound, which coupled with the 2000 grit papper hand sanded (really light, wet) seems to have made things better. I take it that won't rip through the clearcoat/paint?

So far so good, now thinking about the rest of the car. Maybe start with just the Mother's wax, or use the compound all around (except for the newly (2 years ago) painted front)?

C

dr bob

It will rip through the paint if you let it. First couple steps of about four or five. Wet the paper, on a sponge, keep the surface flooded with water, and use it only enough to get the surface smooth. This is once-in-a-paint-lifetime effort, and it really needs just-enough and no more. If the paint surface isn't damaged or orange-peeling, forget the wet-sanding step. If you sand through the clear coat, you already know that you get to start again with a repaint.

Christopher Zach

Yes, I'm not planning on sanding anything else. Only at the point where the white crap was, I'm wondering if it was just caked on sealant or something but that's off.

Question was on using the Meguiar’s Ultimate Compound alone with the buffer on rest of car.

Shark2626

2000 grit will rip through the clearcoat, any grit will if given enough passes. Start with the least aggressive method (Ultimate Compound); it may take several applications but it is a very safe product. You really should not be using sandpaper on your car unless you are trying to remove a small superficial defect, and in that case just a few passes. The clear is not very thick and once it is gone, it’s gone.

But it sounds like you are fine at the moment. Maybe slow down a little? I would! 😂

Christopher Zach

Will do :-) But now I want to wax the whole car and make it shiny before winter.....

Feld

Run the buffer off the edge of the panel with the rotation, if you run it Into the panel edge is where you will burn through the paint. Hang the cord of the buffer over your shoulder to keep it out of the way. Use a white foam pad for the compound (like a one step, not the real coarse one) and a black foam pad for the polish and swirl remover. For beginners you can tape over the edges to protect them and it keeps the compound out of the crevices for easier clean up. As far as applying wax with a buffer I don’t recommend it because the many quality liquid waxes available are very easy to apply.

One of these days I will make a DIY for this.....

Eplebnista

I have a cabinet full of compounds, pads and and orbital polisher if you want to bring the car over. I would start with a medium cut compound first and see what that does. Any time you are removing scratches, swirls and oxidation, you are taking paint off, so it pays to go slow.

Shark2626

Sorry, I signed off last night and didn’t see where you still had questions. The Ultimate Compound is super safe on the entire car and I would do the entire car, even the new paint because it’s now two years old so not very new anymore. And yes, apply the compound to your buffer bonnet and use that on the whole car.

Before you do though, consider clay barring the car with the Meguiar’s Clay Bar Kit. You’ll see why as soon as you do your first section of a panel. There are all kinds of contaminates bonded to your finish that won’t wash off and that are not visible to the naked eye. The clay bar pulls them off making for a smooth slick clean surface to compound and then wax. You don’t need to clay bar that often, but from the deferred maintenance that your paint has you should do it now.

ETA: When using the compound, do one manageable section at a time and remove the left over material with a microfiber towel right after, it is not meant to be left to dry.

F451

Very timely disussion. Next step in the resurrection of my stored for 11 years S4 is detailing and "paint correction". I know nothing about buffing, polishing, paint correction, etc. I recently scored a couple of Griots DA buffers and a bunch of supplies. I'm hoping to drag one of our 928 locals over to help me out with the whole process. Main goal is to not ruin the single stage, if it polishes up a bit and keeps a nicer shine I will be thrilled.

Heading over to the Concours & Car Care forum now to get further overwhelmed, Lol.

khalloudy

Chris, you might be right... I just looked at the year not paying attention to your color. Solid colors were single stage through the early 90s from the many threads I have seen. Metallics seem to have had Base/Clear from many posts. I guess I rushed my feedback.