An Extremely Extreme GTS
02-15-2022, 05:42 AM
#107
Rennlist Member
Yeah, there's 62 separate pieces to make that tank.
While the outside is interesting, the inside is pure insanity, with trap doors, baffles, oil separators, etc.
There's way over 200 hours invested in that tank....over 100 hours of just sitting there, looking at it, and thinking.
....Tough to understand why I couldn't buy one off of the shelf!
And some really interesting things:
1. I have no idea if the design will actually work.
2. And If it does, I don't have a pattern...this is truly a "one off" piece.
While the outside is interesting, the inside is pure insanity, with trap doors, baffles, oil separators, etc.
There's way over 200 hours invested in that tank....over 100 hours of just sitting there, looking at it, and thinking.
....Tough to understand why I couldn't buy one off of the shelf!
And some really interesting things:
1. I have no idea if the design will actually work.
2. And If it does, I don't have a pattern...this is truly a "one off" piece.
Amazing work!
Always wondered if a dry-sump tank can be made to fit there... Now I see the proof! Great to see that you have managed it. Super cool.
Congrats once again.
P.S. I wish it could be blow molded or 3d printed and made available to us mere mortals without bottomless pockets...
02-15-2022, 06:06 AM
#108
Rennlist Member
Not defensive, at all, just saying that my initial point was true.
The Bosch Motorsports ABS is the best that can be purchased.
While the Teves ABS might be able to be programmed in Germany....that's not supper convenient for anyone, in the US.
And the handy ability to change the Bosch ABS though a dozen different settings, for different track conditions, is pretty nice too!
BTW:
There's two levels of Bosch Motorsports ABS.
One is pretty much programmed. You input some variables, like weight, corner weight, etc. And then it figures out what it needs to do.
I'm using that.
The second version is the full race version, where you contract Bosch to send an engineer to program the unit to the car.
That one is a bit over the top.
The car I'm building is going to live at a race track, named Thermal.
It will end up being under 3200 lbs and will live on very soft Yokohama slicks, which are made for use on 9's and 11's.
The owner wanted the option to be able to drive this car home to his winter house in Palm Springs (just for giggles), by simply changing the tires over to street tires.
The Motorsport ABS will serve no function, when in this condition, and will likely just be shut off.
My instructions regarding this car were very simple:
"Build me the trickest 928 on the planet. Make it very fast. Make it very reliable. Make it very safe. Retain the plushness of the stock 928 and the comfort it offers. Give it the ability to out corner 90% of the cars at Thermal, while retaining the great ride qualities of the stock 928. Build a clutch that is butter smooth, but one that can handle the 650-700hp. Give me a "real" limited slip, and fantastic brakes. I want it to have A/C. I own a Singer 911. I want you to build me a "Singer style" 928".
After over 2 years of designing, inventing, and fabricating, it's about ready to be tested.
The Bosch Motorsports ABS is the best that can be purchased.
While the Teves ABS might be able to be programmed in Germany....that's not supper convenient for anyone, in the US.
And the handy ability to change the Bosch ABS though a dozen different settings, for different track conditions, is pretty nice too!
BTW:
There's two levels of Bosch Motorsports ABS.
One is pretty much programmed. You input some variables, like weight, corner weight, etc. And then it figures out what it needs to do.
I'm using that.
The second version is the full race version, where you contract Bosch to send an engineer to program the unit to the car.
That one is a bit over the top.
The car I'm building is going to live at a race track, named Thermal.
It will end up being under 3200 lbs and will live on very soft Yokohama slicks, which are made for use on 9's and 11's.
The owner wanted the option to be able to drive this car home to his winter house in Palm Springs (just for giggles), by simply changing the tires over to street tires.
The Motorsport ABS will serve no function, when in this condition, and will likely just be shut off.
My instructions regarding this car were very simple:
"Build me the trickest 928 on the planet. Make it very fast. Make it very reliable. Make it very safe. Retain the plushness of the stock 928 and the comfort it offers. Give it the ability to out corner 90% of the cars at Thermal, while retaining the great ride qualities of the stock 928. Build a clutch that is butter smooth, but one that can handle the 650-700hp. Give me a "real" limited slip, and fantastic brakes. I want it to have A/C. I own a Singer 911. I want you to build me a "Singer style" 928".
After over 2 years of designing, inventing, and fabricating, it's about ready to be tested.
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GUMBALL (03-27-2024)
02-15-2022, 05:17 PM
#109
Rennlist Member
Yeah, In California, windshield washer tanks are always full of this gross slime mold, the pumps never work, the check valves are stuck, and the spray nozzles are filled with 6 different brands of wax.
Fixing windshield washer/headlight washer systems is not one of our big sellers.
And BTW, for the A/C system, I add in a small tank that will clean the window, one time.
This car won't even have the wipers installed....
Fixing windshield washer/headlight washer systems is not one of our big sellers.
And BTW, for the A/C system, I add in a small tank that will clean the window, one time.
This car won't even have the wipers installed....
This thread is getting quite interesting! Thanks for posting Greg, I thought Loueee was an exciting beast!
Last edited by 928 GT R; 02-15-2022 at 05:19 PM.
02-15-2022, 05:54 PM
#110
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I've had the same problem and on my 90 outlaw GT there have been no wipers on the car since I bought it. In fact they went on the XX8 car because there were non-originals installed when I bought it.
This thread is getting quite interesting! Thanks for posting Greg, I thought Loueee was an exciting beast!
This thread is getting quite interesting! Thanks for posting Greg, I thought Loueee was an exciting beast!
He commented:
"This car seems to be on another page, much further back in the book, of 928 evolution."
Certainly, part of our goal is to build a car that, like a Singer or a Gunther Werks 911, which would appeal to the gentleman racer/enthusiast.
And the fact that we are using a 928 for that platform, in our opinion, trumps those efforts to turn 964's and 993's into the "arty" restorods they are, since the 928 is so much 'finer" of a vehicle, to start with.
And because the 928 platform is such a better place to start, another one of our goals is to be able to drive around the outside of those vehicles.
It has not been an easy road, since we do not have the luxury of using "off the shelf" pieces (there's a plethora of 911 pieces which already exist to "develop" those cars from....suspension, brakes, transmission, engine, etc.)
Rather, almost everything we have used has had to be custom engineered and then built....by us.
I'm kind of embarrassed to admit....there's way over 1000 hours into this car.
Lunch break is over...back to the car!
__________________
greg brown
714 879 9072
GregBBRD@aol.com
Semi-retired, as of Feb 1, 2023.
The days of free technical advice are over.
Free consultations will no longer be available.
Will still be in the shop, isolated and exclusively working on project cars, developmental work and products, engines and transmissions.
Have fun with your 928's people!
greg brown
714 879 9072
GregBBRD@aol.com
Semi-retired, as of Feb 1, 2023.
The days of free technical advice are over.
Free consultations will no longer be available.
Will still be in the shop, isolated and exclusively working on project cars, developmental work and products, engines and transmissions.
Have fun with your 928's people!
Last edited by GregBBRD; 02-15-2022 at 05:58 PM.
02-15-2022, 10:25 PM
#111
Race Director
WOW.....that dry sump tank is SWEET.....i can't wait to see this beast in action.....On slicks your talking 1.6G or so with minimal aero....at least that is what Casper did on used Pirelli slicks 275 all around, but 2850lbs wet with me. Then again Casper did blow the engine because the stock "OB" oiling system isn't up to that type of G forces
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928 GT R (02-15-2022)
02-15-2022, 11:51 PM
#112
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WOW.....that dry sump tank is SWEET.....i can't wait to see this beast in action.....On slicks your talking 1.6G or so with minimal aero....at least that is what Casper did on used Pirelli slicks 275 all around, but 2850lbs wet with me. Then again Casper did blow the engine because the stock "OB" oiling system isn't up to that type of G forces
And we knew that putting a dry sump tank inside the car was out of the question, for this particular car.
So, the over two gallon water tank in the passenger fender gave me hope that I could build a tank big enough to be my dry sump tank.
This seemed simple, in the beginning....
The tank we built ends up having 3.5 gallons of oil capacity, with over a gallon of volume above this level, for air/oil separation.
Additionally, there's three -12 fittings at the top of this oil tank, which are plumbed with -12 hoses to three additional -12 air/oil separators, remotely mounted.
The oil volume, in this car, with two dry sump pumps, three oil coolers, three thermostats, and a whole bunch of hose, is going to be very big....we estimate it will be 20-24 quarts, with everything filled.
Hopefully this system works.
It will be nice to finally have an "hidden" dry sump system.
Last edited by GregBBRD; 02-15-2022 at 11:54 PM.
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GUMBALL (03-27-2024)
02-16-2022, 05:57 AM
#114
Racer
Hi all,Great project, very interesting to follow.
I was wondering how the crankcase is constructed for your dry sump system and how is the correct level of oil ensured with no less than 20l in the system, the bottom of the tank must be much lower than the bottom of the crankcase, right?But maybe there is a pre-oiling pump before starting the engine?
I was wondering how the crankcase is constructed for your dry sump system and how is the correct level of oil ensured with no less than 20l in the system, the bottom of the tank must be much lower than the bottom of the crankcase, right?But maybe there is a pre-oiling pump before starting the engine?
Last edited by puyi; 02-16-2022 at 06:04 AM.
02-16-2022, 12:09 PM
#115
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Hi all,Great project, very interesting to follow.
I was wondering how the crankcase is constructed for your dry sump system and how is the correct level of oil ensured with no less than 20l in the system, the bottom of the tank must be much lower than the bottom of the crankcase, right?But maybe there is a pre-oiling pump before starting the engine?
I was wondering how the crankcase is constructed for your dry sump system and how is the correct level of oil ensured with no less than 20l in the system, the bottom of the tank must be much lower than the bottom of the crankcase, right?But maybe there is a pre-oiling pump before starting the engine?
And yes, we will turn the pump which feeds the engine, before start up, priming as much of the system as possible.
The oil level in the tank is above the level of the pump, with a gentle uphill run of -16 hose, from the bottom of the tank to the pump.
The oil pan is a version of the pan we designed and fabricated for Rob Edward's race engine, with some (difficult) modifications for the A/C compressor to fit.
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GUMBALL (03-27-2024)
02-16-2022, 12:59 PM
#118
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That tank probably weighs ~15 lbs, and the 2 extra gallons of oil vs. what would be in a full washer fluid tank is another 15. Easily dialed out when Greg corner-balances the car.
02-16-2022, 01:04 PM
#119
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The tank is light and all the pieces we removed, (water tank, pumps, hoses, charcoal canister and mount all add up.
The oil weight in the tank is not too much heavier than the water weight in the original tank.
And any added weight is in the perfect spot to compensate for the driver's weight, making the car more balanced, side to side.
So, no changes to suspension to compensate...
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GUMBALL (03-27-2024)
02-16-2022, 01:15 PM
#120
Rennlist Member
it was a serious question-
it just looks so massive from the pic-like its above the hood line-
you can see the work that went into that is no joke!
Awesome build!
I’d like mine to run on street tires and 87 octane please!
please keep pics coming
it just looks so massive from the pic-like its above the hood line-
you can see the work that went into that is no joke!
Awesome build!
I’d like mine to run on street tires and 87 octane please!
please keep pics coming
Last edited by PC-85-928S; 02-16-2022 at 02:29 PM.