TeufelHei

I've recently acquired (though not recieved) an 85 Euro S. I was wondering what sort of goodies go well on these. Nothing insane mind you, just things to make her run a little better.

For instance, I had heard that the Euro S fuel injection tends to run lean(ish) in the top end of the RPM range, is this true and is this the rare exception where a rising rate fuel regulator would add power on it's own?

What about Nology wires and Silverstone plugs, anyone tested anything to see if they are worth the price?

Later on down the road....advice on exhaust setups. I keep hearing DEVEK LII headers+ OTT X-over+ High Flow Cats+ 2.5" Dual ALuminized Steel+ High flow mufflers= ludicrous speed. Any thoughts?

Dave, I'm looking for your input here. I won the auction on that car I asked the forum about and your post convinced me to go for it. Plus the car you've got is inspiring inunto itself. With any luck I can run with you at SITM one of these days.

Thanks!

bcdavis

Well, I'm not sure, but check the exhaust manifolds on that car, and see if they are stock tubular headers, or the restrictive old clunky manifolds. If they are the old style, you may be able to adapt some newer s4 stock exhaust headers onto the car. Which would not be nearly as expensive as custom headers. And yes, the Ott-X-Over seems very popular, for replacing the cats. But I would not say that it will give you ludicrous speed. Headers and exhaust will give you a *noticable* improvement, but it is not a gigantic change. More on the top end, for sure.

Weissach

Is this the auction that you won?? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...&category=6432

I don't see the dual distributers??

Jim bailey - 928 International

Tim The one item often butchered during the Federalization process is the exhaust . When they add a catalytic convertor it often is far too small . I would concentrate on making the car run like it did when new and put some miles on it to see what it really might need . New wires are better than 20 year old ones , same for plugs . The timing belt has probably been done a couple times it may or may not be lined up right or tensioned correctly . Coolant , fluids probably need replacing flushed . The 4.7 Euro has the cast iron manifolds so it can be improved I personally think the 85-86 32 valve manifold is better for a street car , the Ott x pipe works well but would need to be modified for either headers or the 32 valve manifolds .

TeufelHei

Thanks Jim, as it stands the post-acceptance maintenance items will be:
Timing Belt/Water Pump/flush Cooling System
Replace Thermostat and Switch with 75 degree variety for AZ weather
Plugs+Wires (type TBD) Caps/Belt/Rotor
Oil+Filter (Valvoline 20w-50 Synthetic)
Fluid Flush (Valvoline Synthetic)
Full Filter Replacement
Clean and Balance Injectors
Flush + Fill Transaxle/Differential (Reccomendations other than Redline?)
Change Accesory Drive Belts

Replace all others as needed (ie hood shocks, brake pads, etc)

I'm big on preventative maintenance.

Weissach--look closer at the engine picture, they're there.

I'll see how she does on emmissions (perhaps dyno too) before going for exhaust or any other mods.

Any thoughts on the fuel injection/pressure regulator issue?

Weissach

Congrats! I had an 86 euro S. It was a monster. They just love to rev.

TeufelHei

Thanks, hopefully t his one will be a well refined monster. She looks good from a far, it remains to be seen how far she is from good. I have faith though, but I been burned once before.

Jim bailey - 928 International

pressure regulator ..... I really do not know if the Euro LH cars get lean at the top . I tend to doubt that they would since they were less concerned with emissions than were USA cars . You probably need to actually test it to be sure . Obviously IF it is lean it could just be a mass air sensor that is degrading and sending the wrong signal . Bumping up fuel pressure will tend to make it run rich all over . The 4.7 makes peak torque at 4,100 rpm and power at 5,900 which when compared to the 32 valve 85-86 with peak torque at 2,700 rpm power at 5750 . So the Euro does like the higher rpm .

Normy

Yes, the "Euro" does like RPM.

Trust me-

Anyway, the S2 model '85 is a finicky beast. These cars, due to the cams, have a tendency to be very sensitive to tune. That is, a bad plug or a vacuum leak or some other minor problem somewhere will probably lose you horsepower way faster than on a similarly powerful S4. I'd recommend a full and thorough tuneup...to include caps, rotors, wires, plugs [one range hotter, I recommend], a new air filter, and a new fuel filter. Checks of the ignition with an oscilloscope, and an overall check of the injection including a fuel pressure check ought to be done as well. Also, the MAF is sensitive on these cars and should be checked, as well as its O-ring- another common problem area.

THEN you can start to sort out the details. If it has cats, as per Jim above...be wary. There is a good chance that they are undersize or fouled, or simply burned out. The "Euro" LH-Jetronic computer is not the same as the US '85 computer...though if at some point in its life its computer has failed...then you are likely to be driving a Euro car with a US computer. You cannot make the S2 run correctly like this- contact John Speake about a replacement chip to convert your S3 box to S2 specs. As to rising rate fuel pressure regulators...I've read on here that they work. 928 Specialists has as a shop car an '85 S2 with [I think] headers, exhaust...and rising rate regulators. For details, call on Dave or Jeanny at WWW.928GT.com

I've heard headers and the '85-'86 US model 32 valve manifolds make a decent difference [You cannot mount the '87 and later manifolds, by the way]. I have the Ott X-over pipe and a Borla exhaust- this is a loud setup, but it worked wonders for my car. Noticeably stronger in the upper RPM ranges, though I did have a plugged cat.

Anyway, hope this all helps. S2's are hell-raisers...drive safe!

N!
'85 S2 5 Speed

TeufelHei

Yes, I'll have to get one of those AFRM deals to see what is going on. I'll need to raise the fuel pressure slightly sooner or later if I go modifying things at all.
Just one more thing to do in the tuning process.


I'm glad to hear that the Euro S has similar characteristics to my current car, though the figures are much more substantial. It won't be too hard to acclimate to. Not only that, with the peak torque comming later, I should tend to get a slightly improved (overall) acceleration curve versus the 5.0L right? Make better use of those tall gears. I know that the ratios are way different, so that will help too.

TeufelHei

Normy, sounds like I've got a bit of a challenge ahead. By all accounts this car runs like a scalded monkey. However, monkeys can always run just a bit faster if there's a big enough bananna. Ok enough with that metaphor.

Dave R has a same model year, moderately modified car as the one I'm getting. I was hoping to hear from him on this, a PM may be in order. Or, perish the thought, a phone call. I wish we could have met when I was stationed out there.

Thanks for the tip on the Cats, and the line On John Speake. If I run into any problems, I'll need all the help I can get. Incidently, 928intl lists a Euro S LH brain as available, just thought I'd throw that out there.

I've got a few ideas about exhaust. I like subtlety more than sound. I've been complimented on the tone of my present exhaust, "it's worth the price of admission for the sound alone" to which I responded "you should hear things from the driver's seat." That guy was nice, he drove a little Speedster so I guess he knows good sounds when he hears them.

I'm sticking with cats until I get stuck back in NC or another emmissions free state. Random Tech comes recommended, but is there anything wrong with calling the boys at Summit for their Universal high flow cats? They come in any number of shapes and sizes, and for about $70 apiece that's hard to beat. Any ideas on other companies products?

DR

Hi Tim,

I would be happy to help you with any upgrades to your new toy, BUT I do agree with the common sense approach of getting all of the standard maint. caught up first. Once that is done and you have spent some quality time with the Euro S then you will be better qualified to decide what upgrades you desire and in what order.

From all indications you are getting a very nice original Euro S and I would recommend taking is slow and thinking thru any and all mods/upgrades. To be honest I was a little worried when I read your post concerning the stereo system you were proposing. I would implore you to try listening to the wonderful sounds of that 16v screamer for a while first as you may find it is all the stereo you will ever need in this car. That being said, when you are really sure you want to put in an aftermarket stereo please feel free to call me and I will do my best to help you make it as "non-damaging" as possible.

Concerning mods I recommend for a Euro S, check out my Euro S page on our website. - http://www.928gt.com/85EuroS.htm - Everything I have done is an open book and listed there. This of course does not list the obvious repair and maint items that have gone into it.

When you are ready, I will also be very happy to discuss any of those mods and more. Keep in mind that my Euro S was a basketcase when I got it and certainly not what seems to be a very original unmolested example like the one you are getting.

Have a great 928 weekend,

Bryan

When I got my '85 Euro 928S, it had the "butchered" exhaust that Jim mentioned - mine was a stock '83 single-pipe system. The car was NOT happy with that system. You'd start to get into higher rpms and the car would just hit a wall - accelleration would drop off unbelievably. And the transmission tunnel and footwells would get roasting hot after a half-hour or so on the highway. Not good.

I sourced the complete Euro system for it - the dual in/dual out front resonator and the twin-pipe middle/back section (same as '85-'86 US). The car is just SO much happier this way. Everything stays cool and it loves to wind out.

I second the motion of just taking care of maintenance and getting to know the car before launching into mods. Once the car is running right and that motor is dialed in, even totally stock it will be a real rocketship. That motor combined with the shorter gears used on the Euros (you should actually check your option codes on this - two final drives were available in Europe) is pretty satisfying. And you'll have your hands full with brakes (the stock brakes on these cars are great once they're in top shape), suspension, ride height, alignment, seals, bushings, etc.

Although they do have cast exhaust manifolds, the Euro manifolds are specific to this engine and I don't think you'll get too much benefit from changing them.

Bryan

bcdavis

I changed mine to MSDS headers, and got a noticable increase in midrange/high-end horsepower. No additional low-end or torque, but a definate extra rush of speed that was not there before...

TeufelHei

DR,

I agree that the basics will have to be tended to first. What I mean by mods is things like "I have to replace X component anyhow, why not use the performance variety." For instance, what is the honest difference with the Nology wires and Beru Silverstone plugs you guys sell. I'm sceptical to say the least, and I know that plugs & wires don't boost engine output. However, if they do have a legitimate performance or efficiency benefit than I can justify the cost.

As for the AFRM/RRFPR deal, that's simply a tuning method I'm considering. The gas out here 91 at best from the pump, and I'd like to be able to compensate if there is a need.

Thanks for the tips on the exhaust, I'll be sure to inspect it as soon as I can. I'm getting the idea that I won't see much benefit from aftermarket exhaust, unusual to say the least. But when the OEM stuff costs more than the aftermarket stuff, and the quality is there, why not try it? I'll know more later, and I'll be sure to call you, Dave.

I'm not sure that anyone actually looked at the Blaupunkt site. The whole point there is to "update" the system with modern components that are non-invasive. In other words, the speakers are so thin I won't have to cut anything at all. The deck will be standard DIN size, and Blau (San Francisco CD72 if I can swing it) as well. I'll talk to you about that as well Dave, I'm always open to the more experienced word.

For the peace of mind of all concerned, I have no intention of hurting this car. So far as I can see, she's a fairly pristine example of one of the best Porsche had to offer. I plan to keep it that way. That being said, I look forward to getting her more than ever. If she's half the car she's cracked up to be, that's twice what I got right now!